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PostPosted: Sun Mar 12, 2006 11:03 pm 
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Geoff the Medio wrote:
Sounds redundant...

Not to me.

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What exactly would this do that isn't done now?

Actually it can save you from some clicks. If you see a system with one(ore more) fleeticon(s), you could easily click the star and get at a glance displayed what planets and what fleets there are.

While currently, you'll need at least 2 clicks(or more, depending on whether there are enemy ships too).

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There's also enough on the sidepanel with the system info and individual planets info already not to want to devote more space to fleets info as well.

Who decides what 'enough' is? In my opinion there is pretty less info on the sidepanel at the moment.


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 12, 2006 11:40 pm 
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pd wrote:
Who decides what 'enough' is? In my opinion there is pretty less info on the sidepanel at the moment.
Well... the displayed stats for planets will probably become more complex in the future. Gotta leave room for that....
noelte wrote:
In general i like pd's idea. Of cause i wouldn't just take the fleetwindow (or a part of it) and place it at sidepanel. But a little area which displays some stats and icon of the fleets located at the system might be a nice add.
I like this idea. hmm... I think I'll do a mockup later.

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 13, 2006 12:30 am 
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pd wrote:
Quote:
What exactly would this do that isn't done now?

Actually it can save you from some clicks. If you see a system with one(ore more) fleeticon(s), you could easily click the star and get at a glance displayed what planets and what fleets there are.

While currently, you'll need at least 2 clicks(or more, depending on whether there are enemy ships too).

In the perfect world we'll have infinitely large screens and the abilitiy to show all possible information on the sidepanel. Unfortunately we have limited screen area to use, so need to be selective about what is shown where. If we put a bunch of fleet info on the sidepanel, then we have to show less other information. This will me we'll need a scrollbar to see additional planets more often, or we won't be able to put as much cultural or buildings or economic information on the sidepanel. Since there is already a fleets window, which they player can click open if they want fleets information, just the ability to save a click isn't a very strong argument. Sure, you could save a click in cases where you need to see both fleet and planets, but the current design is based around the idea that you'll probably want one or the other as often or more than you'll need both about the same system at once. Keep in mind that it also might mean extra clicks to put fleet stuff on the sidepanel, as you'll have to displace other useful system/planet info.

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Quote:
There's also enough on the sidepanel with the system info and individual planets info already not to want to devote more space to fleets info as well.

Who decides what 'enough' is? In my opinion there is pretty less info on the sidepanel at the moment.

You asked me, so I told you what I thought. However, I meant more so enough that needs to go on the sidepanel about planets than what's there now. Presently the sidepanel sucks and needs a redsign in order to show enough info about planets... I've tried to do this, but it's mostly been ignored. Needed things include meter values, max meter values, old meter values, expected meter value changes, resource production, population, max population, growth, race, environment, size, specials, buildings (name, status, basic info about, perhaps some control widgets if applicable, maintenance costs of, icon/picture of), happiness/morale levels, construction meter info, health meter info, faction / cultureal info, etc. should all be visible without having to open a sub-screen about the individual planet. There also needs to be UI widgets to manipulate this stuff, which is more space-consuming that just displaying the info.

There's nothing particularly troubling about a "fleets at this system" button that opens the appropriate fleet window, though. This would be relatively small, and I posted a feature request for it quite a while ago.

Even better might be to show multiple fleet icons on the map, with different icons to indicate info about the fleets, such as size or role or class of the ships in the fleet, or perhaps a small number indicating how many ships or some abstract ship-value rating for the fleet... or the fleet's visibibility / stealth, etc.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 13, 2006 12:54 am 
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Why not have the sidepanel display information about fleets if a fleet is selected and a starsystem if a starsystem is selected? Then they don't need to fight over space on the sidepanel. The important thing is that you get at the information in 1 click on the map, so if you click a fleet you get all info on it, a starsystem you get all on that. This is much faster then having nestled screens and popups. It is also a good idea to have important information available directly on the map, such as population size, production, number of ships in a fleet etc, with toggles to change around what information is displayed since we can't have it all at once.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 13, 2006 1:28 am 
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Zpock wrote:
Why not have the sidepanel display information about fleets if a fleet is selected and a starsystem if a starsystem is selected? Then they don't need to fight over space on the sidepanel. The important thing is that you get at the information in 1 click on the map, so if you click a fleet you get all info on it, a starsystem you get all on that.

We already have separate fleet windows and sidepanel that can be open simultaneously to show system info and fleet info for different or the same systems, and both of which are opened with one click. Essentially you're suggesting removing the fleets window, or making it not possible to have the fleets window and system sidepanel open simultaneously, which is silly.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 13, 2006 1:35 am 
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I was thinking of this:

Quote:
If we put a bunch of fleet info on the sidepanel, then we have to show less other information. This will me we'll need a scrollbar to see additional planets more often, or we won't be able to put as much cultural or buildings or economic information on the sidepanel.


What I mean is if there is only fleet or planet information, then more of it could be displayed. Maybe not relevant considering how it works now as you say, more so if the display is to be changed in the future to show more information.


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 14, 2006 1:24 pm 
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I did a few mockups:
http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f297/ ... mclip3.jpg
http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f297/ ... mclip2.jpg

I like the one with the boxes around the fleet icons best myself.

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 14, 2006 3:00 pm 
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Yes, that's simple and a start. I like it.

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 14, 2006 6:30 pm 
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Those shrunken mockups are next to useless... I can't even click on them to see a larger version. (Or am I missing something?)

IMO there's not much point in discussing adding this particular feature at great length, or at all, outside the context of a comprehensive sidepanel redesign. There's undoubtedly other info or buttons that will need to be put somewhere. A fleets-at-this-system button needs to fit in with them as well, and this feature isn't essential enough to warrant preemptive inclusion before a full redesign.

Edit: clarified what was shrunken


Last edited by Geoff the Medio on Tue Mar 14, 2006 8:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 14, 2006 6:40 pm 
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Quote:
Those shrunken picks are next to useless... I can't even click on them to see a larger version. (Or am I missing something?)

Hmm, your opinion!!!

At this size it's not a wast of space and you might be able to click on them to open the fleetwindow.

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 14, 2006 6:40 pm 
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Quote:
Those shrunken picks are next to useless... I can't even click on them to see a larger version. (Or am I missing something?)

Hmm, your opinion!!!

At this size it's not a waste of space and you might be able to click on them to open the fleetwindow.

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 14, 2006 8:14 pm 
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noelte wrote:
At this size it's not a waste of space and you might be able to click on them to open the fleetwindow.

I meant the tiny shrunken mockups, not the buttons they were meant to demonstrate...


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 15, 2006 12:25 am 
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Yeah, the image is too small. I can't make out what it is.


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 15, 2006 12:44 am 
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utilae wrote:
Yeah, the image is too small. I can't make out what it is.
I'll post the original version tomorrow. Stupid photobucket squished them. It squished them even though they didn't exceed it's size rules.......

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 15, 2006 8:52 am 
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Geoff the Medio wrote:
noelte wrote:
At this size it's not a waste of space and you might be able to click on them to open the fleetwindow.

I meant the tiny shrunken mockups, not the buttons they were meant to demonstrate...


Ups, ok. I misunderstood you. :oops: I also had to download the pictures and zoom it to have a look. ;) At the given size you can't even see the difference. :)

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