Unique Qualities & Appearances for alien ships?

[eleazar]

EDIT: split from Sunfish Frigate

(at this point a question: I didn't found anything about it on the forum. Is every race going to have a "proprietary form" for their ships?)

Yes

That question has no answer yet, though pd has his opinion. Implementing species is a long way down the road.

It might be nice if each alien had it's own ship style, but i rather doubt that it will be so. Of course nearly everything remains to be determined about alien species in this game, such as how many there are, and how easily you can make your own. Personally i'd like to see quite a few, 9 or 18 starting player species and 18 to 27 lesser species i.e. natives (factors of 9 to evenly fill out the EP wheel). I would hate to limit the number of species by the number of ship graphics the artists can produce.

One thing that's been determined is all species are use the exact same tech tree. From that perspective there's only so much variation you can include before it stops making any sense... to ships built by different species but with exactly the same capabilities shouldn't look utterly dissimilar. It would be needlessly confusing.

[pd]

One thing that's been determined is all species are use the exact same tech tree. From that perspective there's only so much variation you can include before it stops making any sense... to ships built by different species but with exactly the same capabilities shouldn't look utterly dissimilar. It would be needlessly confusing.

Contrariwise, I don't like being limited in ship creation by a single tech tree. It shouldn't be too hard to introduce a small number of customized race specific techs, while keeping the same basic tree.

[Geoff the Medio]

I don't like being limited in ship creation by a single tech tree.

Race-limited techs aren't necessary to differentiate races' ships (or any other race-dependent abilities or properties). A hull or part can have an arbitrary condition limiting where it can be built, which should (when we have races) include requiring it to be built at a planet with a particular race.

[eleazar]

One thing that's been determined is all species are use the exact same tech tree. From that perspective there's only so much variation you can include before it stops making any sense... to ships built by different species but with exactly the same capabilities shouldn't look utterly dissimilar. It would be needlessly confusing.

Contrariwise, I don't like being limited in ship creation by a single tech tree. It shouldn't be too hard to introduce a small number of customized race specific techs, while keeping the same basic tree.

It's already decided, and IMHO decided rightly, at least up to v1.0. See the first 5 posts of this thread.
Of course you can argue that this should be changed, but it's not simply up to your preference.

Race-limited techs aren't necessary to differentiate races' ships (or any other race-dependent abilities or properties). A hull or part can have an arbitrary condition limiting where it can be built, which should (when we have races) include requiring it to be built at a planet with a particular race.

I don't see how this distinction is relevant to gameplay or balancing issues.

[Geoff the Medio]

Race-limited techs aren't necessary to differentiate races' ships (or any other race-dependent abilities or properties). A hull or part can have an arbitrary condition limiting where it can be built, which should (when we have races) include requiring it to be built at a planet with a particular race.

I don't see how this distinction is relevant to gameplay or balancing issues.

What distinction are you referring to, and what is the relevance in any case? The point was that specific hulls being limited to specific races doesn't require race-specific techs, and so graphics won't be "limited in ship creation by [the] single tech tree".

[eleazar]

Race-limited techs aren't necessary to differentiate races' ships (or any other race-dependent abilities or properties). A hull or part can have an arbitrary condition limiting where it can be built, which should (when we have races) include requiring it to be built at a planet with a particular race.

I don't see how this distinction is relevant to gameplay or balancing issues.

What distinction are you referring to, and what is the relevance in any case? The point was that specific hulls being limited to specific races doesn't require race-specific techs, and so graphics won't be "limited in ship creation by [the] single tech tree".

Ah, i see what you mean... Your first post sounded to me like you were saying the tech tree could include hulls (distinct in more than appearance) which could only be built by certain species, but since it was in everyone's tree it wasn't "species specific".

What you actually meant was, "the appearance of a ship can be determined by the species of the planet at which it is built." right? Which is well and good, but i think everyone else had been simply assuming that this would be so.

The disagreement, i believe is over these points:
1) will all species have unique ship graphics?
2) will the ships of different species have unique functions and/or qualities?

#1 IMHO should not be definitively answered yet.
#2 has been addressed by Aquitaine.

[Geoff the Medio]

...the tech tree could include hulls (distinct in more than appearance) which could only be built by certain species, but since it was in everyone's tree it wasn't "species specific".

This was what I meant. The point is you don't need race-specific techs to have race-specific content.

That it's possible doesn't mean different species' ships will necessarily be functionally different, however; they could just look different.

Minor quirks might be that different-looking but funtionally-identictal ships couldn't have their designs copied, however... and that you'd need a separate design for each race, if a hull was restricted to a particular race.

We could probably add a way to define different appearances for the same hull for different races, however.

[utilae]

I think we could create ship designs in various lines that could be applied to a typical race type, but can be used by any race,
eg

Square ships line (20 models)
Spiky ships line (20 models)
Rounded ships line (20 models)
Triangular ships line (20 models)
etc

So a crystal race might use the spiky ships or a human race could use them. An ET race might use the rounded ships or even a human race. A machine race might use the square ships or the humans might use them or the machine race might use the triangle ships, etc.

This way requires less artwork, but provides themes that tend to fit into classic race stereotypes.

[eleazar]

So a crystal race might use the spiky ships or a human race could use them. An ET race might use the rounded ships or even a human race. A machine race might use the square ships or the humans might use them or the machine race might use the triangle ships, etc.

I expect we will have something like this, at least for a while— though not necessarily with such a geometric basis.

On the other hand, IIRC MoO1 & 2 let you choose any of their 6 ship styles for your species. Not the best choice for world-building, but the player is not going to complain about the choice he made.

[Josh]

Woah, woah, woah, wait, this changes everything. I just got through sketching stuff for the Gyisache, you mean to tell me that ship models are not going to be race specific?

[pd]

Nothing changes, because nothing has been decided. Go ahead please.

I'd like to postpone this discussion until we actually start working on ships. There is enough to work on at this moment and I'm more than busy with it.

In short: I'm in favor of extremely versatile race specific ships and I'm very glad hearing that specific techs, hulls, parts etc. can be linked to certain races. Since discussion about races is going to happen after spacecombat, but ships can't be designed properly without races in mind I'm going to take the liberty and provide 2 different shiplines for 0.4. It's my personal opinion, but it should carry some minor weight.

Universal ship designs might be added and could be used as a filler or for "lesser races", if there will ever be something like this.


Thread locked for now. Please go to brainstorming, if you have to discuss this now. It's not a pure graphical discussion anyway.