production and research UI screen

[Impaler]

If a tec costs 50 Points over 10 turns yet my empire Generates 1 RP per turn then would that not be a 500 year project? Am I missing something here, I had always though the total RP cost of a tec was Points per turn multipled by Turn count. So 12 RP for 10 turns equals 120 total RP. The # of points I am actualy putting towards it may be less then 12 and it will take longer then 10 years to complete, 120/X ware X is the perturn alocation.

[noelte]

how it works:

If a tech requires 10RP for 10 turns, you have to spend exactly 10RP to reduce completion time by one turn. You can't spend more or less than 10RPs to that tech. That means, if you don't have 10 RPs left at this turn, you can't spend them.

But some unknown person suggested that you can stockpile RPs which can be spend this turn (NOTE: that's only true if there is an projects runnung which can't be provided with the available RPs). At the moment the stockpile reaches a amount of RP which is sufficient to provide an project, that's exacly what happens.

[Impaler]

Well their sertanly NEEDS to be a use of extra Research Points simply having them wasted would be unacceptable and encourage Micromanagment.

The stockpiling you pointed out would be functionaly identical to having a project recive less then its full PR in a turn so you might as well do it that way and simply the whole thing greatly.

I have never played HOI but I am shure they must have come up with a solution their that we can use.

[drek]

From the Design Doc:

Excess (or unallocated) RP is kept in a persistent container until that container holds enough RP to advance a project by one turn. For example, if an Empire produces 105 RP per turn and has 11 projects requiring 10 RP per turn for 10 turns, the 11th project will advance 'one turn' every two turns such that it would be completed in 20 turns, given a constant input of 100 RP.

[Impaler]

Improved version




The Tree is shown on the right, in the Middle is a vertical colum of Queued research highest priorit is at the bottom lowest at the top (to parrellel the Tetris falling effect). The Box to the left shows the colored blocks that reprsent the Projects. I am thinking now that its best to have a constant width and each little grid cell represents a % of your total Output so you dont need to scroll.

If the design documents do infact call for extra RP to be pooled like that then I would say it should be changed. Pooling the points will be just one more extra layer of coding and complexity for the player to get through. Which is easier to understand "Every 7 turns Project X is reciving 9 points ecept every third time around accumulated round off means it takes only 6 turns so the project will be done in...." or simply "Every turn Project X is getting 3 points and will be finished in 21 turns"

The method for filling the Tetris Blocks is this. For each row take the RP produced and fill up each projectfrom left to right and paint in the blocks. Predict when a Project will be completed and stop filling it in on subsequent higher rows. Drop in new projects when this is room avalible. Last keep the Colored Blocks from being cut up by filling from the left when needed.

As the User rearanges the Queue the blocks rearange imediatly to show the result many turns into the Future and gives the ETA to each Discovery.

[drek]

A work in progess, still incredibly ugly:


1: The player clicks "Build" on the side, revealing the Build Projects window:

http://home.earthlink.net/~drekmonger/B ... ojects.png

2: The player clicks either Structures & Projects or Starships, revealling Categories. Alternate: A third button on the side for ships.
3: The player clicks a Tech Category. They are identical to the categories
that should appear on the tech screen. Hrm, might be useful to have an "ALL" category as well. (the window should automatically default to the last category viewed.)
4: The player selects a build project:

http://home.earthlink.net/~drekmonger/B ... jects2.png
5: The galaxy map still functions as normal. Additonal indicators are on starsystems in which the project can be built.
6: The top build button hovering over the planet sends the project to the top of the queue. The bottom build button sends the project to the bottom of the queue.
---7b: If the project is already in progress on that world (for example, the user just clicked "Build Top of Queue") a "CANCEL" button hovers near the planet.
---7c: The project can also be canceled or moved from the global queue, or a list of ongoing projects on the planet window.
8: Clicking a category will return to the category list. The window can also be closed: in either case the player is no longer in "Build Project Mode"....any build buttons disappear.



Techs work very simlairly, except the control buttons (Start top of queue, start bottom of queue, Pause Project) are on the Tech page.

Still working on a build/tech queue.

[Impaler]

Looks quite nice actualy.

For the First Image, I would recomend the Build button be in the top screen Bar area and the left side of the Screen be keept completly clean and unclutered. This would just look better in my opinion and use the bar space that already exists. I think theirs potential here to combine some of the elements of Geoff's Mock up with yours Drek. For example if I am opening from scratch I use Geoff's pull down system to go strait to what I want, after that opened I jump around with a window like the one you have to see what else I might want.

I think you should have 3 buttons Structure/Projects/Ship and possibly a 4th for System Level stuff that dosent need to be targeted on a planet. Structures/Buildings should be clearly destinquished from one time ephemeral Projects. It might also be good to have a "Task Force" button to order whole user designed task forces to be built.

I would make the Tec Catagory Buttons larger, when in Ship Building Mode these could change to ship/taskforce Catagories (but 5 catagories of ships seems rather limited so maybe some means to expand it).

I would hope that a large number of options is going to be viewable on the Widow at one time, nothing more anoying then scrolling all over the place. like in late game SMAC. If the window you showed filled the whole Galaxy Map area it would hold enough stuff in my opinion. Perhaps Maximize/Minimize is a good idea here. Once you make a selection it shrinks to show only that selection as you have it doing in the second picture so it will be easier to see the map.

In addition to "Top of Queue" "Bottom of Queue" a "take me right to the Quee and let me drop it in" button in the middle would be good. I almost always consider that kind of stuff and rairly go for the top or bottom. The button takes you directly to the Queue (what ever it looks like) and lets you drop the item in then spits you back to ware you were.

[Tyreth]

The mockup looks nice. A minor nitpick - on buildprojects.png the Sector hospital lists 5 turns, while in buildprojects2.png it says 8 turns.

It would be good if the window moved out of the way when you are hunting for a planet. Players will probably need two ways to select a destination:
1. Selecting the planet via the main galaxy map. In this case the window could minimise to a small box in the top left corner that gives the bare basics of information - a small icon showing the image and maybe turns+cost. This way the galaxy map is nearly fully visible as normal.
2. Sorting of all planets owned by the player - the player will often decide on a location based on things like "top 5 research planets" or "planet with worst farming". This way they can select the destination without using the galaxy map if desired.

[drek]

1. Selecting the planet via the main galaxy map. In this case the window could minimise to a small box in the top left corner that gives the bare basics of information - a small icon showing the image and maybe turns+cost. This way the galaxy map is nearly fully visible as normal.

*nod* The normal minimize button Could be present, collasping it down to the state you've described.

2. Sorting of all planets owned by the player - the player will often decide on a location based on things like "top 5 research planets" or "planet with worst farming". This way they can select the destination without using the galaxy map if desired.

Hrm, this could be very useful to have even without the building implications. The line-item for each applicable world would get a BUILD buttons when a build project is selected; smaller versions of the buttons on the planet sidebar.

[Impaler]

I was thinking of using the Mouse Wheel with the right button held down for switching between a variety of Map info filtering options, I will do a mock up soon. Idealy the player could continue to have full control over map filtered of info on the Galaxy map all the time they are placing Build orders.

[Tyreth]

1. Selecting the planet via the main galaxy map. In this case the window could minimise to a small box in the top left corner that gives the bare basics of information - a small icon showing the image and maybe turns+cost. This way the galaxy map is nearly fully visible as normal.

*nod* The normal minimize button Could be present, collasping it down to the state you've described.

I'm really not a fan of the minimize button - I feel that, within a game, there's almost always a more intuitive and simpler approach. In this particular case the window could automatically reduce its size to a small window when the player clicks on the galaxy map to move it around, showing minimal information. To return it to it's original size the player will either move the mouse over the minimized window, or click on it.

That's the great thing about games - since we control what 'applications' are available, we can provide a much simpler and more intuitive UI

But this isn't such an important issue for now. It may be worth our time soon to come up with an official UI design document to ensure that we follow consistent guidelines.

Hrm, this could be very useful to have even without the building implications. If we have these lists exist, then the line-item for each applicable world would get a BUILD buttons when a build project is selected; smaller versions of the buttons on the planet sidebar.

Just throwing around some more ideas, because I'm trying to imagine how I'd want the game to work if I was playing. The sidebar could be changed to show all the planets that the player controls. As the player moves the mouse over each planet, the galaxy map scrolls to that planet so the player is instantly reminded where it is. If the player selects a system then the sidebar changes to show only that system's planets.

This would mean having a search toolbar underneath the systems list. There would need to be a toolbar to control which planets are shown in the list (sort in order, include/exclude certain types, etc). One option would return the list from showing only that system to showing all planets again.

This would reflect the fact that our method of choosing a location for a building will change:
* Location based - will need to then use galaxy map to determine best host
* Resource based - will need a sortable list to find best host

[pd]

It may be worth our time soon to come up with an official UI design document to ensure that we follow consistent guidelines.

full ack, will be very usefull.

[noelte]

I'm looking for an complete UI Dialog rather than a single dialog which needs to use the sidepanel.

Starting with dreks first picture i would add a second column where the possible build locations are displayed. For instance if you select MegaFarm only Planets with Farming Focus would be displayed. if you select ship buildings the planet list is replaced by a shipyard list.

Also, i would like to use that dialog to display which projects are currently assigned to a planet and which are already completed (list of building)

[drek]

I'm really not a fan of the minimize button - I feel that, within a game, there's almost always a more intuitive and simpler approach. In this particular case the window could automatically reduce its size to a small window when the player clicks on the galaxy map to move it around, showing minimal information. To return it to it's original size the player will either move the mouse over the minimized window, or click on it.

Sounds like a good idea to me. Though I'd still have a minimize button in addition to that functionality, so that player doesn't have to scroll the map just to view it under dialog.

Just throwing around some more ideas, because I'm trying to imagine how I'd want the game to work if I was playing. The sidebar could be changed to show all the planets that the player controls. As the player moves the mouse over each planet, the galaxy map scrolls to that planet so the player is instantly reminded where it is. If the player selects a system then the sidebar changes to show only that system's planets.

hmm. I like the consistancy of always having planet information in the same place. Another good idea, imo. I don't know about the auto-scroll of the galaxy map--that might be better off as a button that center the map on the correct star and perhaps highlight the star. If the star is already highlighted, clicking again would open the starsystem. (or, of course, clicking the star as per normal.)

Instead of linking it to the build dialog, seems useful to allow the player to enter into a sidepanel query mode at any time. (essentially, clicking on a star would be a kind of query: show me all planets in this starsystem)

This could be useful for setting foci quickly across the entire empire or for getting an overview of all planets in the empire (or perhaps an enemy empire.) Would also need a toggle to reduce the sidepanel's entries to a less verbose display (with smaller planet pictures, less information...the player would click on the planet to pull up the planet info if he needed to manipulate foci, projects, or whatever).

I'm looking for an complete UI Dialog rather than a single dialog which needs to use the sidepanel.

wondering: is there a reason not to use sidepanel...? Esp. since the player needs the geographic information on the galaxy map to place buildings in effective locations.

Also, i would like to use that dialog to display which projects are currently assigned to a planet and which are already completed (list of building)

Wouldn't that make more sense as a tab on the planet info screen (plus, perhaps, a list box on the sidebar)?

[noelte]

hmm. I like the consistancy of always having planet information in the same place.

I agree with that.

wondering: is there a reason not to use sidepanel...? Esp. since the player needs the geographic information on the galaxy map to place buildings in effective locations.

Does he? If i'm short on food, i'm going to build a Megafarm somewhere. So i would like going to Production UI and chose a planet to build on. This seems to be the more natural way, rather than going through the systems and find an planet which can handle a MegaFarm. (Even if there is a local area effect, the ui could make some suggestions)

Wouldn't that make more sense as a tab on the planet info screen (plus, perhaps, a list box on the sidebar)?

Ok, might be. maybe displayed on planet view!?

But at least we need some way of displaying/canceling ongoing projects at a central place.