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 Post subject: Re: Energy Frigate
PostPosted: Fri Jun 12, 2015 7:30 am 
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yandonman wrote:
My re-import into Clara.IO didn't have any textures... if it works for someone else, I'd be surprised. Looking into it...


My guess the problem here is obj format exporter of Clara IO. The file doesn't refer to any material library and the export doesn't seem to contain any .mtl file (which is said material library). Maybe you can export those too. If not you better try Collada next.

Also the text you have written into the commit message should be in a Markdown file next to the exported model. See this example and use this template. For the commit message itself a "Add '<thing>' by <author>" should be sufficient, the problem with your commit message was only that it was completely unrelated to the content you uploaded. This is bad because in the future you can't search for it, whereas you can search for an author or a 'thing' much more easily.


For more details: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wavefront_ ... _materials

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 Post subject: Re: Energy Frigate
PostPosted: Sat Jun 20, 2015 7:37 pm 
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MatGB wrote:
Can you make the art into both a standard icon for the production window and a design panel version?


I believe so...:
Attachment:
EnergyFrigate_Hull.png
EnergyFrigate_Hull.png [ 524.52 KiB | Viewed 7949 times ]

Attachment:
EnergyFrigate_HullIcon.png
EnergyFrigate_HullIcon.png [ 352.25 KiB | Viewed 7949 times ]

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 Post subject: Re: Energy Frigate
PostPosted: Sat Jul 18, 2015 1:02 pm 
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Have scripted up a draft set, the AI needs adjusting for it so it's not directly in trunk but worth linking here anyway, it's really cool in game, I kept making up new designs for it just because it's so pretty, I really like.

Added Energy Frigate hull, tweaked Energy hull line prerequisites · MatGB/freeorion@2c5f3e4

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 Post subject: Re: Energy Frigate
PostPosted: Sat Jul 18, 2015 6:09 pm 
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MatGB wrote:
Have scripted up a draft set, the AI needs adjusting for it so it's not directly in trunk but worth linking here anyway, it's really cool in game, I kept making up new designs for it just because it's so pretty, I really like.

Added Energy Frigate hull, tweaked Energy hull line prerequisites · MatGB/freeorion@2c5f3e4
I think it's well positioned within the tech tree (and within the energy hull line). And i really like that it can be build at white star systems.

Random notes:
1. The stringtable entries are missing.

2. Gravitonics should be a prequesite of the new Energy Frigade tech, because Gravitonics is tier 4 and Energy Frigade is tier 5 (one short line is better than 2 long ones).

3. Comparing the stats of the Energy Frigade to other hulls, it falls a little short. It's not better than the Robotic Hull (which has the same cost and slots, less speed and fuel, but more structure and regeneration) which comes much earlier in the tech tree and the Energy Frigade becomes obsolete when Quantum Hulls are available (which has more slots, more structure and costs less). Ok, the Quantum hull can't be build at white stars, but why would you start the energy line when you don't have a blue star or black hole? (The Energy Frigade could be the answer to that question but currently is not).

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 Post subject: Re: Energy Frigate
PostPosted: Sat Jul 18, 2015 7:38 pm 
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MatGB wrote:
Have scripted up a draft set, the AI needs adjusting for it so it's not directly in trunk but worth linking here anyway, Added Energy Frigate hull, tweaked Energy hull line prerequisites · MatGB/freeorion@2c5f3e4
Mat, could you set up a branch for this instead of just doing it in your master? That way Sloth could submit a PR to your branch to add the stringtable entries for you (if you're lucky). But we really should not be trying to do this kind of development in your master branch, lol :D .

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 Post subject: Re: Energy Frigate
PostPosted: Sat Jul 18, 2015 11:26 pm 
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I never use the master branch on that fork, haven't since I switched to Linux, but I'll see what I can do tomorrow (um, when I'm sober). And stringtables will get done when I've time, I figured better have up somewhere what I'd done, without them, so other can give feeddback.

Not sure on logic of gravitonics, I'd like to see this be an alternative line completely which this makes viable (I'd like to take damage control out of robotic prerequisite so that not everyone researches it always), but it's worth thinking about, tech tree structure is a minor consderation really, at least until we've gone over the whole thing again.

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 Post subject: Re: Energy Frigate
PostPosted: Sun Jul 19, 2015 5:46 am 
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MatGB wrote:
I never use the master branch on that fork, haven't since I switched to Linux
Ok, well I guess it slipped through this time. No worries, we all let something slip through now & then, and putting something onto your own forks master is quite minor. At least it made it available to me, so I have cherry-picked it into a branch on my fork. I'll work there with it and you are invited to also PRs, or you can make your branch and I can just continue to cherry pick.

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 Post subject: Re: Energy Frigate
PostPosted: Sun Jul 19, 2015 6:43 am 
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MatGB wrote:
Not sure on logic of gravitonics, I'd like to see this be an alternative line completely which this makes viable (I'd like to take damage control out of robotic prerequisite so that not everyone researches it always), but it's worth thinking about, tech tree structure is a minor consderation really, at least until we've gone over the whole thing again.
In your version Quantum Energy and Energy Boundary have Gravitonics (column 4) and Energy Frigade (column 5) as prequesite so they are placed in column 6 of the tech tree and two long lines will be drawn from Gravitonics to them. Making Gravitonics prequesite of Energy Frigade instead will result in one short line from column 4 to column 5 (and Quantum Energy and Energy Boundary will still have Gravitonics as indirect prequesite)

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 Post subject: Re: Energy Frigate
PostPosted: Sun Jul 19, 2015 1:07 pm 
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Sloth wrote:
In your version Quantum Energy and Energy Boundary have Gravitonics (column 4) and Energy Frigade (column 5) as prequesite so they are placed in column 6 of the tech tree and two long lines will be drawn from Gravitonics to them. Making Gravitonics prequesite of Energy Frigade instead will result in one short line from column 4 to column 5 (and Quantum Energy and Energy Boundary will still have Gravitonics as indirect prequesite)

Yup, in my version the Energy Frigate is available as a fairly early hull designed in part to reduce the (over) reliance on the Robotic Hull and make the energy line viable, moving it back to require gravitonics makes it a later game hull in many respects as although it's only one 'jump' (not something I generally pay attention to when playing) gravitonics is only something you want/need early (ie before Quantum Networking and/or Orbital Habitation if you've found a black hole with something in orbit early. That's why I, deliberately, made the changes I did, to make it usable at a point where it's actually viable and not bumping into Heavy Asteroids and/or Gravitators. The tech tree crosses over in a large number of areas all over the place, one more line makes very little difference to that overall.

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 Post subject: Re: Energy Frigate
PostPosted: Sun Jul 19, 2015 5:01 pm 
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MatGB wrote:
Yup, in my version the Energy Frigate is available as a fairly early hull designed in part to reduce the (over) reliance on the Robotic Hull and make the energy line viable, moving it back to require gravitonics makes it a later game hull in many respects as although it's only one 'jump' (not something I generally pay attention to when playing) gravitonics is only something you want/need early (ie before Quantum Networking and/or Orbital Habitation if you've found a black hole with something in orbit early. That's why I, deliberately, made the changes I did, to make it usable at a point where it's actually viable and not bumping into Heavy Asteroids and/or Gravitators.
Gravitonics costs 160 RP, the Energy Frigate tech costs 400 RP. Reducing the costs of the Energy Frigate tech to 240 RP and the research time to 3 should fix this.

MatGB wrote:
The tech tree crosses over in a large number of areas all over the place, one more line makes very little difference to that overall.
If every new tech adds two new long lines, the tech tree will be tangled mess again in no time. Just because the situation is not so good doesn't mean we shouldn't try to make it worse.

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 Post subject: Re: Energy Frigate
PostPosted: Sun Jul 19, 2015 6:41 pm 
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Yeah, playing through from scratch with them and the research for both compressed energy and the frigate is just too much anyway, needs tweaking, compressed energy hulls simply aren't that good, you're basically paying the RPs to get the Compressor, that's not a good costing. I shall tweak a bit.

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 Post subject: Re: Energy Frigate
PostPosted: Sun Nov 01, 2015 2:50 am 
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I had completely forgotten about this project in the run up to Release, was clearing out some branches, have put up a pull request:
Create Energy Frigate and amend tech tree by MatGB · Pull Request #394 · freeorion/freeorion

Minor tweaks to AI research priorities are needed, beyond that it's good to go.

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 Post subject: Re: Energy Frigate
PostPosted: Sun Nov 01, 2015 9:57 pm 
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I still think that the hull falls short compared to the Robotic Hull and that it unnecessarily adds to the tangledness of the tech tree.

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 Post subject: Re: Energy Frigate
PostPosted: Sun Nov 01, 2015 10:04 pm 
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For the latter, maybe, we can always tweak stats if need be, it's certainly more fragile, but the speed boost, especially given you can have it really early, is immensely useful (especially for hunting down those annoying krill that keep popping up these days).

And given how messy the tech tree already is I simply don't see your issue with it, it moves things around in a minor way, that gravitonics is a prereq for too many things may be an issue but given the current prereqs for the line this is the most balanced way to add them in, the frigate and the compressed scout definitely need to be available far earlier than gravitonics is generally researched.

Given we need to redo the tech tree substantially anyway, at some point, a minor insertion at this stage is easier than a rewrite and for balance it needs to be earlier than your approach would have it, I don't want to make gravitonics an early game take.

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 Post subject: Re: Energy Frigate
PostPosted: Mon Nov 02, 2015 8:00 am 
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MatGB wrote:
And given how messy the tech tree already is I simply don't see your issue with it, it moves things around in a minor way, that gravitonics is a prereq for too many things may be an issue but given the current prereqs for the line this is the most balanced way to add them in, the frigate and the compressed scout definitely need to be available far earlier than gravitonics is generally researched.

Given we need to redo the tech tree substantially anyway, at some point, a minor insertion at this stage is easier than a rewrite and for balance it needs to be earlier than your approach would have it, I don't want to make gravitonics an early game take.
As i've mentioned before, for me the tangledness of the tech tree is a mayor issue and to just put the untangling off for later is really dangerous.

The task to redo the tech tree becomes more and more challenging the more clutter piles up. And even though everyone agreed that it has to be done asap, no one volunteered to take the task right now.

So here is a suggestion with less clutter:
A. Energy Boundary Manipulation is no longer dependend on Energy Frigade.
B. Quantum Energy gets the preq Energy Boundary Manipulation and doesn't need Gravitonics.
C. Solar Containment doesn't directly depend on Energy Boundary Manipulation.

Suggestion:
Force Field Harmonics - Gravitonics - Energy Boundary Manipulation
\:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::\
:\:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: Quantum Energy - Solar Containment
::\::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: /
::: Force-Energy Compression - Energy Frigade

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