Species contradictions, especially Can't Colonise species

[MatGB]

Example: Cynos, broad planet tolerance, can't colonise, can build ships, but need to visit their home plant on their homeworld every 30 hours to feed.

The last is a minor story quirk. But surely all "can't colonise" species should be given either narrow or no other planet tolerance? Alternatively, if they're meant to be broad tolerance but can't colonise, give them a couple "good" worlds for the scripts to pick up on?

As I'm planning/hoping to rewrite a chunk of en.txt anyway, should I, when I find these little quirks, fix them in a way that doesn't mechanically change the game?

And report stuff I think could be rethought/improved here?

[Chriss]

I would say yes.

Also: setting preferred focus for species which are better at research than industry or vice versa (though industry is the default I think).

There is the native gardener robot species which seems to be a rather bad grab. No Industry focus, bad research. Maybe they could have another bonus to compensate? Happiness? Slightly reduced research or production cost for things like terraforming, gaia transformation?

[MatGB]

Also: setting preferred focus for species which are better at research than industry or vice versa (though industry is the default I think).

That's implemented for most, but not all, so far, I plan to go through and add it to a lot more at some point, a couple might get the "wrong" focus deliberately depending on species description (IIRC Cray are happy industrious robots, they could prefer industry while being bad at it, etc)

There is the native gardener robot species which seems to be a rather bad grab. No Industry focus, bad research. Maybe they could have another bonus to compensate? Happiness? Slightly reduced research or production cost for things like terraforming, gaia transformation?

Silexians now get Good Supply, which can be a nice little boost when you're not expecting it, but I have no justification for a planet bound robot being good at supplying fleets.

But…

I like that some species are a bad grab, I'd like to make it more of a viable choice to deliberately wipe out early conquered species in certain circumstances, Raaargh in particular are now almost not worth taking. (although I have considered giving them a "mercenaries" growth focus a few times, got it coded up once).

From original thread, subsequent to this I have rewritten and recoded a few species, Cynos get an explanation for their no colonising thing, etc. More to be done, but I think that's always going to be the case with this game

[vincele]

Hello,

while you're at it, what do you think of mentionning *in the text* that exobots are the only race able to colonize asteroids. I think this is an important point warranting double information (dupe from habitability list), because people could overlook that fact. I also would link the exobot race page with the tech page that permit building them. And additionally make a link from asteroids back to exobot race...

If you can't do it but it's agreed to be good ideas, I can have a look at doing that myself...

[MatGB]

It can be done, it's almost certainly a good idea.

I keep thinking that there should be other races that could colonise them, or even let all races do so, I very strongly predict we'll have a "colony" in the asteroid belt before we have a colony on other planets here, won't be self-sustaining but it'll be trading strongly.

For a start, at least one of the Lithic races is said to be able to survive in space for periods of time, and rock eaters would fit well flavour wise, but I have a strong suspicion it'll be horrifically unbalanced so haven't put any work into it immediately.

[vincele]

but I have a strong suspicion it'll be horrifically unbalanced so haven't put any work into it immediately.

And then the energy-based lifeforms will want their fair share of the universe and lobby to get gas giants for themselves to breathe in...

[MatGB]

I tried Gas Giant dwellers for a bit. When I said "strong suspicion" what I meant was "yeah, tried it with gas giants, horrible horrible horrible, gave up". Loosely based on the Hydrogues in Kevin Anderson's Sage of the 7 Suns (if you've not read it, don't bother, lovely worldbuilding, plot and characters incomprehensible), and it just didn't work.

But Giants would be different to asteroids, for a start asteroids are "small" not "huge" for population and other purposes, so it wouldn't be as bad. Might try it again at some point.

[vincele]

But Giants would be different to asteroids, for a start asteroids are "small" not "huge" for population and other purposes, so it wouldn't be as bad. Might try it again at some point.

I said that half as a joke you know... But the other half in me wanted better usage of those huge gazy things rotating in space. What about accompanying every gaz giant with an hidden special that modify its max population count back to a sane level ? Want to delve into sub-brown dwarves ?

[MatGB]

I think those two suggestions can be left for awhile (although a friend of mine is writing a book on brown dwarfs, he's something like the 2nd leading expert in the world on the subject or something, even though he works in IT as he hated academia)

[Chriss]

Raaargh in particular are now almost not worth taking. (although I have considered giving them a "mercenaries" growth focus a few times, got it coded up once).

You mean something like setting them to growth focus increases the troop size on supply line connected planets? I like that idea.

I would also like to see more uses for asteroids and gas giants. With techs like environment encapsulation and orbital habitation it seems kind of strange that they are not habitable...

[mileser]

Raaargh in particular are now almost not worth taking. (although I have considered giving them a "mercenaries" growth focus a few times, got it coded up once).

You mean something like setting them to growth focus increases the troop size on supply line connected planets? I like that idea.

I would also like to see more uses for asteroids and gas giants. With techs like environment encapsulation and orbital habitation it seems kind of strange that they are not habitable...

Not just that, but, in our experience, gas giants can have moons that are as large as Earth. So, with just that assumption, habitable gas giant systems should be possible - but possibly make them hostile for all species and have a random size equivalence (e.g., this gas giant system is equivalent to a small size planet and this gas giant system is the equivalent of a medium size planet).

[MatGB]

Raaargh in particular are now almost not worth taking. (although I have considered giving them a "mercenaries" growth focus a few times, got it coded up once).

You mean something like setting them to growth focus increases the troop size on supply line connected planets? I like that idea.

Pretty much. Had it completely coded up ages ago as a very early "how does this scripting lark work then" thing. Then did an accidental revert without taking a backup and never went back to it.

For balance, given their supposed "won't leave the planet" flavour, I think it'd need to be just a few planet types, Raargh mercenaries would be fine defending, say, Earth, but I don't see them happy wandering around or assisting the Abaddoni's hiding on Io, d'you?

I might go back to it at some point, it'd definitely be a cool little gimmick that wouldn't be hard to code or balance properly.
[quoteI would also like to see more uses for asteroids and gas giants. With techs like environment encapsulation and orbital habitation it seems kind of strange that they are not habitable...[/quote]
Agree. And Mileser, we've sort of talked about 'habitable moons' theory before, and random population stuff, but it'd have to be either fairly complex or hidden from the end user, neither is good really.

On a different thread there's been talk of other ways to take the project, I mentioned seeing a fork, at some point in the future, that adds food and similar back in and is meant to be a much smaller game with emphasis on planets and systems, and for that I think it'd be a grand idea, but not simple enough for the grand sweeping scope of what this FO project is meant for.

[Chriss]

I don't quite see how one could include gas giant moon systems within the current FO scope, too... It is either just another planet, or too complicated. Maybe if Geoff pushes more into the "nomad species" idea with Ships as population, research and industry centres... They could concentrate on gas giants and asteroids, and it would make sense. They probably would need to be rather stealthy and sneaky...

But I really like this do something different with the growth focus Idea... For now, you just conquer all those natives and have their planet help as any other planet, unless it's a robot, or good pilot species. But with some unique bonis, it would feel more like a diverse empire. Wasn't there some species that was good at solving mathematical riddles in waveforms? Research bonus. One could also rewrite the computronium moon special to act in a similar way - the bonus only applies if the planet has the growth focus?

[MatGB]

I don't quite see how one could include gas giant moon systems within the current FO scope, too... It is either just another planet, or too complicated. Maybe if Geoff pushes more into the "nomad species" idea with Ships as population, research and industry centres... They could concentrate on gas giants and asteroids, and it would make sense. They probably would need to be rather stealthy and sneaky...

Aye, I'm leaving even thinking about that until we've got something to script with, until we've got factory ships and research vessels as a viable option, going further will be too much blue sky thinking for my poor little brain.

But I really like this do something different with the growth focus Idea... For now, you just conquer all those natives and have their planet help as any other planet, unless it's a robot, or good pilot species. But with some unique bonis, it would feel more like a diverse empire. Wasn't there some species that was good at solving mathematical riddles in waveforms? Research bonus. One could also rewrite the computronium moon special to act in a similar way - the bonus only applies if the planet has the growth focus?

Fifty Seven I think, or possibly Phinnert, but yeah, that might actually be quite nice. Not sure about Computronium moon, when I get it really early it can be a nice boost for that planet only. Unless you meant a flat bonus for all planets if on growth, and maybe just that planet if on research? That could be doable and cool.

Gah, I have too many other ideas to play with at the moment, stop giving me more. Wait, you said in a different thread you were compilign but not actually coding. Code the growth focus stuff up for Raargh and whichever species it is with the wave form stuff, good practice

[Dilvish]

One could also rewrite the computronium moon special to act in a similar way - the bonus only applies if the planet has the growth focus?

Are you proposing that the computronium moon special require the planet be in growth focus for the empire to get the bonus? I'm not understanding the thinking behind that.