Industry vastly overpowered, Research vastly underpowered
Posted: Fri Mar 24, 2017 9:48 am
Everything stated below is a result of observations of many multiplayer games
1) early game.
Species with 150% industry 75% research get HUGE advantage over species with 150% research 75% industry:
- they colonize much faster
- Automated History Analyzer compensates lack of research bonus
- they capture natives much faster
- research species with research focus can research cool stuff fast (i.e. adaptive doctrine), but they will be far behind in population and number of planets so will still be at disadvantage
- research species with industry focus wilk be simply at twice disadvantage (75% vs 150% industry)
- research species can research strong military techs but they will be unable to use them without proper industry (it can easily take 15 turns for one robotic ship with lasers)
- research species can do some research first and then switch to industry - still, lots of time will be lost while industry species expand and colonize. Robotic Production and Fusion Generarion techs are cheap and industry species can research them early too. And Adaptive Industry won't help scientific species much due to few number of planets.
- industry species that capture scientific species basically win the game. Same may be true scientific species that capture industrial natives, but it's MUCH easier and faster for industrial species to capture scientific natives than counterwise. There are ZERO techs in early game that help capturing natives
- industry species can grow exponentially since the beginning, scientific - only after researching adaptive doctrine or capturing industrial nativea. setting industry focus at first turn with -25% penalty is suicide
- industry species with Nascent Artificial Intelligence will have same amount of science as scientific species by turn 30-40 due to larger number of bases. But they will have many times more industry, even if scientific species have Adaptive Industry. And once industry species get Adaptive Industry - they are unstoppable
- if they spawn close enough, industry species can rush scientific species with mass drivers and there's nothing that can be done to counter that. Even if scientific species already have robotic hulls, laser 4 and diamond armor - they will barely be able to build 2 ships before being overran and conquered. And even if they lose one planet - it's OVER because industry species will now also have science species in empire.
- one high-tech way of defeating zerg rush and early attacks is going stealthy. But then you won't have time for expansion and it's just a matter of time before industry species research radars and crush you anyway. Also building infrastructure for stealthy ships and stealthy ships themselves will take 100% of industry that you have, and even then it may be too late
- another high-tech way of early defense is maxing out planetary defenses, mines, planetary stealth. Still - it will save you some time before getting crushed. While you research defense, enemy will expand exponentially and can still harrass you and prevent your expansion (i.e. by blocking lanes, destroying outpost ships)
2) Late game:
- most research-boosting techs are closer to second half of tech tree. Industry species that have some scientific species in empire will benefit much from it. Research species with low industry and planets will benefit too, but this additional research is still pretty useless as there is no industry to back it up. Research species that somehow got lots of planets won't need it much because 1) their research is too high already (much more than industry) 2) end of tech tree is near anyway so no point in increasing research further. So, research boosting techs also help industry species to get some additional science (and they DO have industry to put researched stuff into use immediately) but don't help research species much
- as you reach end of tech tree, more and more research is wasted. Hopefully you got industry natives by that time and can repopulate your planets by that time. Industry species are still at advantage here because they already have most of empire populated with industrial species so no need to repopulate
- it seems the best efficient industry:research ratio is 4:1 . More science will mean that you won't be able to use researched stuff properly - i.e. advanced ships will take too long to build, growth bonuses will not give enough benefits due to low number of planets. It's MUCH easier for industry species to get research of 1/4 of their industry (even Nascent Artificial Intelligence alone is often enough) than for research species to get industry four times of their research
- Transcendence victory is not achievable in multiplayer games, I don't remember any game where anybody got at least 50% of it researched
- by turn 100-250 industry species in most cases have both science and industry superior to what research species have
So, research species require all of these conditions to be able to stay in game at all:
- plenty of peaceful time with lots of colonizeable planets
- industry natives nearby that can colonize planets and are easy to capture (i.e. no strong planetary defences, no guard ships, no space monsters blocking way, close enough to supply lines)
- no enemy industry species nearby
- no industry species in galaxy that can capture scientific natives early
Any if those conditions absent - and there's no chance of winning. It's just a matter of time before getting crushed by vastly more powerful enemy.
Industry species, on other hand, are doing fine without any of those conditions and can raise science enough by the mid game.
1) early game.
Species with 150% industry 75% research get HUGE advantage over species with 150% research 75% industry:
- they colonize much faster
- Automated History Analyzer compensates lack of research bonus
- they capture natives much faster
- research species with research focus can research cool stuff fast (i.e. adaptive doctrine), but they will be far behind in population and number of planets so will still be at disadvantage
- research species with industry focus wilk be simply at twice disadvantage (75% vs 150% industry)
- research species can research strong military techs but they will be unable to use them without proper industry (it can easily take 15 turns for one robotic ship with lasers)
- research species can do some research first and then switch to industry - still, lots of time will be lost while industry species expand and colonize. Robotic Production and Fusion Generarion techs are cheap and industry species can research them early too. And Adaptive Industry won't help scientific species much due to few number of planets.
- industry species that capture scientific species basically win the game. Same may be true scientific species that capture industrial natives, but it's MUCH easier and faster for industrial species to capture scientific natives than counterwise. There are ZERO techs in early game that help capturing natives
- industry species can grow exponentially since the beginning, scientific - only after researching adaptive doctrine or capturing industrial nativea. setting industry focus at first turn with -25% penalty is suicide
- industry species with Nascent Artificial Intelligence will have same amount of science as scientific species by turn 30-40 due to larger number of bases. But they will have many times more industry, even if scientific species have Adaptive Industry. And once industry species get Adaptive Industry - they are unstoppable
- if they spawn close enough, industry species can rush scientific species with mass drivers and there's nothing that can be done to counter that. Even if scientific species already have robotic hulls, laser 4 and diamond armor - they will barely be able to build 2 ships before being overran and conquered. And even if they lose one planet - it's OVER because industry species will now also have science species in empire.
- one high-tech way of defeating zerg rush and early attacks is going stealthy. But then you won't have time for expansion and it's just a matter of time before industry species research radars and crush you anyway. Also building infrastructure for stealthy ships and stealthy ships themselves will take 100% of industry that you have, and even then it may be too late
- another high-tech way of early defense is maxing out planetary defenses, mines, planetary stealth. Still - it will save you some time before getting crushed. While you research defense, enemy will expand exponentially and can still harrass you and prevent your expansion (i.e. by blocking lanes, destroying outpost ships)
2) Late game:
- most research-boosting techs are closer to second half of tech tree. Industry species that have some scientific species in empire will benefit much from it. Research species with low industry and planets will benefit too, but this additional research is still pretty useless as there is no industry to back it up. Research species that somehow got lots of planets won't need it much because 1) their research is too high already (much more than industry) 2) end of tech tree is near anyway so no point in increasing research further. So, research boosting techs also help industry species to get some additional science (and they DO have industry to put researched stuff into use immediately) but don't help research species much
- as you reach end of tech tree, more and more research is wasted. Hopefully you got industry natives by that time and can repopulate your planets by that time. Industry species are still at advantage here because they already have most of empire populated with industrial species so no need to repopulate
- it seems the best efficient industry:research ratio is 4:1 . More science will mean that you won't be able to use researched stuff properly - i.e. advanced ships will take too long to build, growth bonuses will not give enough benefits due to low number of planets. It's MUCH easier for industry species to get research of 1/4 of their industry (even Nascent Artificial Intelligence alone is often enough) than for research species to get industry four times of their research
- Transcendence victory is not achievable in multiplayer games, I don't remember any game where anybody got at least 50% of it researched
- by turn 100-250 industry species in most cases have both science and industry superior to what research species have
So, research species require all of these conditions to be able to stay in game at all:
- plenty of peaceful time with lots of colonizeable planets
- industry natives nearby that can colonize planets and are easy to capture (i.e. no strong planetary defences, no guard ships, no space monsters blocking way, close enough to supply lines)
- no enemy industry species nearby
- no industry species in galaxy that can capture scientific natives early
Any if those conditions absent - and there's no chance of winning. It's just a matter of time before getting crushed by vastly more powerful enemy.
Industry species, on other hand, are doing fine without any of those conditions and can raise science enough by the mid game.