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PostPosted: Sun Aug 07, 2011 12:48 am 
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EDIT: Split out from A few simple things to make FO more playable

Geoff the Medio wrote:
I'll add a SetDestination effect, which will work on fleets, including space monster fleets, and will allow arbitrary conditions and behaviour to determine movement.
This is done, and monsters move around occasionally in the SVN version. Note that the relevant effectsgroups will need to be removed from ship_hulls.txt to use an older version of the engine.


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 07, 2011 9:33 pm 
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Geoff the Medio wrote:
Regarding monster reproduction, this should be doable with the existing effects and conditions system. Maybe make an "spawning gland" ship part, and give it to one of the monster designs, and have it have an effect that creates more monsters (using createship) at some random chance, possibly with other conditions.

Edit: Also, since monster movement or reproduction are done through effects, it should be possible to have buildings or techs interact with these. Buildings could repel monsters, boost their reproduction, or draw them towards a location. /Edit

LIkewise, we can already have monsters that "develop" into other space monsters under certain conditions, by using CreateShip and Destroy.

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 07, 2011 10:28 pm 
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I'm thinking a Krill swarm could "grow" while in systems with asteroid belts. Each one more dangerous than the one before.

Small Krill Swarm > Krill Swarm > Large Krill Swarm > Krill Plague (starts attacking planets)

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 07, 2011 11:48 pm 
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Cool

And as you suggested a while ago, the empire color red should probably be taken away from empires, and used for unaffiliated hostiles, such as space monsters.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 08, 2011 3:28 am 
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Well as for the idea of multiplication of space monsters, it would be interesting to have them all start from "hives" with a possibility of eliminating all the hives...maybe it could be a winning condition as well "Eliminate all Space Monster Hives" and maybe keep a "high Score" of turns...etc.

Also what about much older, larger, bigger space monster "bosses" maybe warping in from long forgotten galaxy's though wormholes (Making wormholes places to keep a eye on).


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 08, 2011 3:46 pm 
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Ok, expanding on the space monster idea a little, i wrote out behavior in pseudocode-- i don't know if all these actions are possible. What i'm trying to achieve is a state were unexplored chunks of the galaxy grow gradually more dangerous over time. Weak monsters will not uncommonly leak out from the "wilds", and powerful monsters will rarely come out. The more powerful monsters move around less, to give you a decent chance of mounting defenses.

Code:
Abandoned Drone factory
   * won't leave system
   * on turn 1 produces between 1 and 5 abandoned drone fighters
   * produces a drone every 10 turns

Abandoned Drone fighter
   * 2% chance of leaving system per turn
   * relatively weak


Code:
Death Nebula
   * 25% chance per turn of moving
   * Will destroy solar trees, and krill
   * Attacks populations without “environmental encapsulation”
   * Destroyed when enters a system with black holes, or neutron stars


Code:
Solar Tree
   * Appear at blue or white stars
   * won't leave system
   * 4% chance of producing a floater
   * 2% chance of producing another solar tree

Floaters
   * If system contains gas giant 30% chance of producing larval space squid.
   * 35% chance per turn of moving

Larval Space Squid
   * 75% chance of moving
   * If system contains krill, “eat” krill and advance to Space Squid

Space Squid
   * If system contains krill, “eat” krill and advance to Huge Space Squid
   * If system has a blue sun, 10% of producing a solar tree
   * If system has a white sun, 5% of producing a solar tree
   * If system doesn't contain hostile 60% chance of moving

Huge Space Squid
   * If system has a blue sun, 20% of producing a solar tree
   * If system has a white sun, 10% of producing a solar tree
   * If system doesn't contain hostile 40% chance of moving
   * Some unusual circumstance upgrades to Leviathan

Space Leviathan (renamed dragon to mesh better with other names)
   * Extremely strong
   * If system doesn't contain hostile 4% chance of moving



Code:
Small Krill Swarm
   * If system contains asteroids
      * 5% chance of upgrading to Large Krill Swarm
      * 20% chance of moving
   * If system doesn't contain asteroids, 60% chance of moving

Large Krill Swarm
   * If system contais another Large Krill Swarm, delete both and produce Plauge of Krill
   * If system contains asteroids
      * 10% chance of spawning a Small Krill Swarm
      * 10% chance of moving
   * If system doesn't contain asteroids, 50% chance of moving
   
Plauge of Krill
   * Attacks planetary populations
   * If system contains asteroids
      * 10% chance of spawning a Small Krill Swarm
      * 20% chance of moving
   * If system doesn't contain asteroids, 40% chance of moving

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 08, 2011 5:12 pm 
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eleazar wrote:
* Will destroy solar trees, and krill
You might want to specify a chance of destroying things. There's currently no way to have monsters fight eachother, so this would need to be implemented using the Destroy effect.

Quote:
* Attacks populations without “environmental encapsulation”
There's presently no way to do this; anything not controlled by an empire is always hostile and attacks / is attacked by player planets or ships. (If a monster has no weapons then it won't attack, but will still be attacked by armed player forces.) There needs to be a way for players to set their ships / planets as hostile or not though, so probably that mechanism will be usable to control monster behaviour as well, whenever it gets implemented.

Quote:
* Appear at blue or white stars
Monsters don't have a location condition for where they are spawned at the start of the game. You could create them with effects, though where to put such an effect isn't clear. Best would be if it was part of their own or another strain of monster, in which case the rate of spawning will probably depend on the number of monsters around to be the source for the effect... it will end up being executed (or tested for execution based on conditions) once per monster that has the relevant effectsgroup.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 08, 2011 5:57 pm 
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Geoff the Medio wrote:
eleazar wrote:
* Attacks populations without “environmental encapsulation”
There's presently no way to do this; anything not controlled by an empire is always hostile and attacks / is attacked by player planets or ships. (If a monster has no weapons then it won't attack, but will still be attacked by armed player forces.)

OK, but monsters can attack colonies? Not just wipe them out instantly, but fight against them gradually?

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 08, 2011 6:04 pm 
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eleazar wrote:
OK, but monsters can attack colonies? Not just wipe them out instantly, but fight against them gradually?

Presently, monsters will attack colonies, which will deplete the colonies' shield and construction meters, but won't actually destroy the colony or damage its productivity. They will also block resource and fleet supply to/from the colony if there are no colony-friendly ships in the system.

However, effects on the monster could be used to damage or destroy colonies or their buildings.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 08, 2011 6:51 pm 
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I expect the monster behaviors i'm describing will be significantly more complicated to implement than they are to read, but besides the impossible stuff, would any of this be excessively complicated to implement?

I want to be realistic.

I'm working on resolving the issues you mentioned, providing descriptions and filling in some other holes.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 08, 2011 7:47 pm 
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eleazar wrote:
would any of this be excessively complicated to implement?
Generally, things like X% chance of moving or spawning another monster are easily doable with existing effects and conditions or already have examples in SVN.

Explicitly checking for the presence of a monster of a particular type in a system probably isn't possible now, but wouldn't be difficult to add. Adding a condition for a particular ship design has been on the programming work list for a while, mainly because it wouldn't be very difficult to do. At present, you can check for the presence of any monster (not a specific one) by testing for ships not owned by any empire. Or, monsters could be given unique specials that could be tested for to uniquely identify their type until a dedicated condition has been set up for that purpose.


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 09, 2011 6:50 pm 
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Krill Swarm

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Biomes?

Suppose we have 3-5 different galactic biomes:

Core
Arm
Void
Nebula
Outer Ring

Creatures could be native to one or more of the above. Some biomes could be more dangerous than others.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 10, 2011 12:55 pm 
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Yakk wrote:
Biomes?

Suppose we have 3-5 different galactic biomes:

Core
Arm
Void
Nebula
Outer Ring

Creatures could be native to one or more of the above. Some biomes could be more dangerous than others.

That could potentially be interesting, but I think the main purpose of this thread is to consider things that are easily doable with FO's current code, so we can make the game fun and attract more contributors now.

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 10, 2011 9:25 pm 
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Refined Krill concept:
These guys are supposed to be the most common space monster due to their relatively high reproductive rate. The Swarms are mostly a nuisance, they have no weapons and usually flee. However it may be wise to attempt to exterminate the Krill, since unchecked reproduction turn them into the significant threat that a Plauge of Krill may pose.

Code:
Small Krill Swarm
   "Space Krill are small, vaguely insectile organisms that feed on the dust and rocks far from any gravity well.  Individually simple, Krill communicate via coherent light, allowing the swarm to coordinate and calculate trajectories. Though normally not aggressive, their numbers become a hazard for navigation, and block resupply. The high quantity of low-G resources found in an asteroid belt, provide Krill with the perfect conditions to rapidly multiply."
   HP: 5
   * No Weapons
   * If system contains imperial ships, 75% chance of moving
   * If system contains asteroids
      * 8% chance of upgrading to Medium Krill Swarm
      * 10% chance of moving
      * Else, 60% chance of moving

Medium Krill Swarm
   HP: 10
   * No Weapons
   * If system contains imperial ships, 66% chance of moving
   * If system contais another Medium Krill Swarm, delete both and produce Large Krill Swarm
   * If system contains asteroids
      * 12% chance of spawning a Small Krill Swarm
      * 20% chance of moving
      * Else, 50% chance of moving

Large Krill Swarm
   HP: 25
   * Light Weapons
   * If system contains imperial ships, 66% chance of moving
   * If system contais another Large Krill Swarm, delete both and produce Plauge of Krill
   * If system contains asteroids
      * 16% chance of spawning a Small Krill Swarm
      * 25% chance of moving
      * Else, 40% chance of moving
   
Plauge of Krill
   "Krill behavior changes radically when a critical population is reached-- somewhere in the 10s of millions. The normally flighty Krill, become aggressive, attacking ships and destroying orbital structures."
   HP: 50
   * 10% chance of destroying shipyards, asteroid mines and orbital buildings.
   * If system contains asteroids
      * 16% chance of spawning a Small Krill Swarm
      * 20% chance of moving
      * Else, 33% chance of moving

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 11, 2011 8:42 pm 
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I thought about making monsters colonizing and creating a new lair on a planet. A concept of an infestation of a players planet could be fun. Perhaps if a certain monster type detroyed all defenses it could convert te population/ships/infrastructure to it's advantage.


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