Natives with CanColonize but without CanProduceShips

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Sloth
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Natives with CanColonize but without CanProduceShips

#1 Post by Sloth »

There are currently 3 native species that should be able to colonize, but can't build ships: Furthest, Phinnert and Silexian.

CanColonize was commented out for these species in 2013, because there was no way for them to build colony ships. Now that we have the new remote colonization mechanics (and i'm confident that it is a feature that's meant to stay), there is a way for them to colonize.

I'm willing to produce a patch that adds colony buildings for them. Any concerns or additions?
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MatGB
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Re: Natives with CanColonize but without CanProduceShips

#2 Post by MatGB »

I was wondering about that, meant to ask why the commenting had been done but forgot. Main concern: We have too many Swamp dwelling species, and this will make all of them able to colonise except the 57. I have no objection to any of the specific species, but perhaps moving one or two to Toxic or Ocean would be better, both of those are low on numbers. No idea which though.

Beyond that, I've been told off recently for changing the colony buildings file and not the python script that creates the buildings file, I'm told learning Python is easy (and amending the script itself to include what you want is going to be very easy), but you'll need to change then run the script, which I'venot yet learnt to do myself. It has gone up my To Do list of late though.

I may have some gameplay balance concerns, but I have that with the entirety of the species collection, this won't make it worse, except in that the AI is still unable to use the new system and this might make them even weaker, comparatively, especially with Silexian supply bonuses. I definitely want some non-shipbuilding colonisers, these are as good a place to start as any.

If I recall correctly I did some work changing some other can't build ships species so they were can't colonise a few months back, can't remember which though, I'll see if I've got the old patch files.
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Sloth
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Re: Natives with CanColonize but without CanProduceShips

#3 Post by Sloth »

I had some time and went ahead to make pull request.
MatGB wrote:I was wondering about that, meant to ask why the commenting had been done but forgot. Main concern: We have too many Swamp dwelling species, and this will make all of them able to colonise except the 57. I have no objection to any of the specific species, but perhaps moving one or two to Toxic or Ocean would be better, both of those are low on numbers. No idea which though.
Some time ago i made a patch to move Sslith from tundra to ocean, but it was forgotten.
MatGB wrote: Beyond that, I've been told off recently for changing the colony buildings file and not the python script that creates the buildings file, I'm told learning Python is easy (and amending the script itself to include what you want is going to be very easy), but you'll need to change then run the script, which I'venot yet learnt to do myself. It has gone up my To Do list of late though.
I think i managed to use the python script the way it's supposed to.
MatGB wrote: I may have some gameplay balance concerns, but I have that with the entirety of the species collection, this won't make it worse, except in that the AI is still unable to use the new system and this might make them even weaker, comparatively, especially with Silexian supply bonuses. I definitely want some non-shipbuilding colonisers, these are as good a place to start as any.
The 3 affected species are not very exciting, but it adds flavor and distinction to native species in general.
MatGB wrote: If I recall correctly I did some work changing some other can't build ships species so they were can't colonise a few months back, can't remember which though, I'll see if I've got the old patch files.
I've looked through the species files back to 2012 and it was always only the 3 species that had CanColonize but not CanProduceShips.
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Re: Natives with CanColonize but without CanProduceShips

#4 Post by MatGB »

Ah, I remember what it was, it was species with broad planetary tolerance and can't colonise, I fixed that as it was silly.

Not sure about moving Sslith, although it is daft they're aquatic and live on Mars-like worlds, I think we need to do a complete workover of all the species we've got and decide where to go balance wise, perhaps have a dedicated branch for it so we can play with silly features a bit?

Anyway, before I hit merge, have you played at least part of a game to make sure there's not an eggregious error that you haven't picked up? I can't see any missing quote marks or similar but there's always something.
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Re: Natives with CanColonize but without CanProduceShips

#5 Post by Sloth »

MatGB wrote:Anyway, before I hit merge, have you played at least part of a game to make sure there's not an eggregious error that you haven't picked up? I can't see any missing quote marks or similar but there's always something.
Ok, i'm testing right now and you are right there is always something. So wait for an updated version.
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Re: Natives with CanColonize but without CanProduceShips

#6 Post by Sloth »

Ok. The buildings also had to be unlocked and they were missing stringtables.

The current pull request works now.
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Re: Natives with CanColonize but without CanProduceShips

#7 Post by MatGB »

See, I knew there was something missing but my brain wouldn't tell me what, always have to play through a patch to make sure there's nothing daft happening (I managed to have Floaters destroy everything in the system they were in and the attaching starlanes every time they tried to create a new dyson forest once, took me ages to work that out)
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Re: Natives with CanColonize but without CanProduceShips

#8 Post by Dilvish »

ok guys, I see you have had a super-quick discussion on this after all. If you guys want to put in the PR again then I won't argue on the substance of it, but be sure to actually describe it reasonably correctly, or at the very least point to the forum discussion where the parts not acknowledged in the PR actually did get discussed.
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Re: Natives with CanColonize but without CanProduceShips

#9 Post by Vezzra »

Sloth wrote:CanColonize was commented out for these species in 2013, because there was no way for them to build colony ships. Now that we have the new remote colonization mechanics (and i'm confident that it is a feature that's meant to stay), there is a way for them to colonize.
That was actually one of the minor reasons why I implemented the new mechanics - so that "can colonize" but "can't produce ships" natives are possible.

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Re: Natives with CanColonize but without CanProduceShips

#10 Post by Vezzra »

MatGB wrote:Not sure about moving Sslith, although it is daft they're aquatic and live on Mars-like worlds
Well, changing their PE should be simple enough. If we have too many swamp, too few ocean dwellers and Sslith are described as aquatic, I think that's plenty reasons to do the switch. A complete overhaul of all the species is probably a good idea, but that shouldn't keep us from making such small adjustments now.
I think we need to do a complete workover of all the species we've got and decide where to go balance wise, perhaps have a dedicated branch for it so we can play with silly features a bit?
Sure, why not? That's what branching is for (among many other things).

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Re: Natives with CanColonize but without CanProduceShips

#11 Post by Vezzra »

Dilvish wrote:If you guys want to put in the PR again
Yes, please recreate that PR. The changes sound fine, I'd like to have that committed.

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Re: Natives with CanColonize but without CanProduceShips

#12 Post by Sloth »

I've changed the name of the pull request to: "Add colony buildings for Furthest, Phinnert and Silexian". That should be clear enough.

I don't have the rigths to reopen the pull request though: https://github.com/freeorion/freeorion/pull/63
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Re: Natives with CanColonize but without CanProduceShips

#13 Post by Vezzra »

Sloth wrote:I don't have the rigths to reopen the pull request though: https://github.com/freeorion/freeorion/pull/63
Well, this PR can't be reopened, because it hasn't been closed, but actually merged, and subsequently been reverted. So in that case I think you'd need to create a new PR.

However, Dilvish already produced a branch which reverts the reversion of the merged PR. Follow the link and take a look at the changes, these should be identical to the PR that got merged. We just need to merge that branch into master - @Dilvish: anything preventing us from doing so?

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Re: Natives with CanColonize but without CanProduceShips

#14 Post by Dilvish »

Ah-- I had started to revert the revert, but then it seemed like the description was still going to be off and so I stopped & was trying to decide about asking Sloth to redo the actual underlying commit. I hadn't realized that had actually produced a branch already. Anyway, I guess the thing has had enough attention now perhaps getting the extra info into the commit message doesn't matter so much anymore. I suppose merging this reversion branch is fine.
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Re: Natives with CanColonize but without CanProduceShips

#15 Post by Vezzra »

Dilvish wrote:I suppose merging this reversion branch is fine.
Done.

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