Ship cost/effectiveness of new and old models

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yandonman
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Re: Ship cost/effectiveness of new and old models

#31 Post by yandonman »

"No targets for attacker with id: 3" - I get lots of these messages, and the weapons match up with the enemy's weapon type, so they're blowing all their firepower on whatever the non-existing object with id 3.

Code: Select all

2012-10-25 00:57:12,648 DEBUG Server : Combat at Eltanin (53) Round 3290
2012-10-25 00:57:12,648 DEBUG Server : Attacker: Chastity II
2012-10-25 00:57:12,648 DEBUG Server : weapon: SR_WEAPON_8 attack: 12
2012-10-25 00:57:12,648 DEBUG Server : weapon: SR_WEAPON_8 attack: 12
2012-10-25 00:57:12,648 DEBUG Server : Attacking with weapon SR_WEAPON_8 with power 12
2012-10-25 00:57:12,648 DEBUG Server : No targets for attacker with id: 3
2012-10-25 00:57:12,648 DEBUG Server : Combat at Eltanin (53) Round 3291
2012-10-25 00:57:12,648 DEBUG Server : Attacker: Tarpan
2012-10-25 00:57:12,648 DEBUG Server : weapon: SR_WEAPON_8 attack: 12
2012-10-25 00:57:12,648 DEBUG Server : weapon: SR_WEAPON_8 attack: 12
2012-10-25 00:57:12,648 DEBUG Server : Attacking with weapon SR_WEAPON_8 with power 12
2012-10-25 00:57:12,648 DEBUG Server : No targets for attacker with id: 3
2012-10-25 00:57:12,648 DEBUG Server : Combat at Eltanin (53) Round 3292
2012-10-25 00:57:12,648 DEBUG Server : Attacker: Ponaturi V
2012-10-25 00:57:12,648 DEBUG Server : weapon: SR_WEAPON_8 attack: 12
2012-10-25 00:57:12,648 DEBUG Server : weapon: SR_WEAPON_8 attack: 12
2012-10-25 00:57:12,649 DEBUG Server : Attacking with weapon SR_WEAPON_8 with power 12
2012-10-25 00:57:12,649 DEBUG Server : No targets for attacker with id: 3
2012-10-25 00:57:12,649 DEBUG Server : Combat at Eltanin (53) Round 3293
2012-10-25 00:57:12,649 DEBUG Server : Attacker: Granite IV
2012-10-25 00:57:12,649 DEBUG Server : weapon: SR_WEAPON_8 attack: 12
2012-10-25 00:57:12,649 DEBUG Server : weapon: SR_WEAPON_8 attack: 12
2012-10-25 00:57:12,649 DEBUG Server : Attacking with weapon SR_WEAPON_8 with power 12
2012-10-25 00:57:12,649 DEBUG Server : No targets for attacker with id: 3
2012-10-25 00:57:12,649 DEBUG Server : Combat at Eltanin (53) Round 3294
2012-10-25 00:57:12,649 DEBUG Server : Attacker: Prometheus V
2012-10-25 00:57:12,649 DEBUG Server : weapon: SR_WEAPON_8 attack: 12
2012-10-25 00:57:12,649 DEBUG Server : weapon: SR_WEAPON_8 attack: 12
2012-10-25 00:57:12,649 DEBUG Server : Attacking with weapon SR_WEAPON_8 with power 12
2012-10-25 00:57:12,649 DEBUG Server : No targets for attacker with id: 3
2012-10-25 00:57:12,649 DEBUG Server : Combat at Eltanin (53) Round 3295
2012-10-25 00:57:12,649 DEBUG Server : Attacker: Lamia III
2012-10-25 00:57:12,649 DEBUG Server : weapon: SR_WEAPON_8 attack: 12
2012-10-25 00:57:12,649 DEBUG Server : weapon: SR_WEAPON_8 attack: 12
2012-10-25 00:57:12,649 DEBUG Server : Attacking with weapon SR_WEAPON_8 with power 12
2012-10-25 00:57:12,649 DEBUG Server : No targets for attacker with id: 3
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Geoff the Medio
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Re: Ship cost/effectiveness of new and old models

#32 Post by Geoff the Medio »

yandonman wrote:"No targets for attacker with id: 3" - I get lots of these messages, and the weapons match up with the enemy's weapon type, so they're blowing all their firepower on whatever the non-existing object with id 3.
That's an empire ID. The message means (the combat code thinks) there are no valid targets for that empire's ships left in the battle.

yandonman
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Re: Ship cost/effectiveness of new and old models

#33 Post by yandonman »

The one-shot-per-weapon makes a huge difference, and finding good discerning matchups is quite difficult - which is a good thing.

I've included a patch for the hulls consistent with the above (latest) spreadsheet, and including rounding the numbers off (above 20) - except for organic hulls, which I left as is to give them a more "organic" feel.


Without counters or AoE weapons, battles still favor numbers quite a bit. The patch should help with that a little, giving tech-ing up a one to two hit advantage.
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[The extension patch has been deactivated and can no longer be displayed.]

Last edited by yandonman on Thu Nov 01, 2012 4:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Geoff the Medio
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Re: Ship cost/effectiveness of new and old models

#34 Post by Geoff the Medio »

yandonman wrote:I've included a patch...
Where?

Does adding additional costs to hulls dependent on the number of owned ships, as in this change change things? The extra cost is set up as proportional to the hull cost, so cheaper hulls' cost increases less, but having more cheaper hulls increases the costs faster than would fewer expensiver huller.

Also, have you considered the comments here regarding your testing methods?

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Re: Ship cost/effectiveness of new and old models

#35 Post by yandonman »

Oops - hehe :oops: (added above) - And yes, synced from latest and modified (so your latest changes there are preserved).


Yes. I think the difference in Bosparan's and my testing involves the number of ships (10-to-1 vs 25-to-1) and potentially the ship design, which was not specified. He seemed to think that I failed to calculate cost, but that's not accurate. Based on the previous firing mechanism, one could spend 125 PP / 2 turns to take out a 756 PP / 10 turn ship. I haven't figured out how to model the new firing mechanism in excel... yet.
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Geoff the Medio
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Re: Ship cost/effectiveness of new and old models

#36 Post by Geoff the Medio »

yandonman wrote:And yes, synced from latest and modified (so your latest changes there are preserved).
I meant do those changes make any strategic difference, not did you notice / preserve them...

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Re: Ship cost/effectiveness of new and old models

#37 Post by yandonman »

I haven't really felt the cost increase in-game. I think the initial cost for low end ships is so low (compared to late came economy) that the increase in cost (per ship) isn't really felt. I'll keep an eye on it though - and especially see what happens to one late game ship when I have a couple hundred low end ships.
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Geoff the Medio
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Re: Ship cost/effectiveness of new and old models

#38 Post by Geoff the Medio »

yandonman wrote:I think the initial cost for low end ships is so low (compared to late came economy) that the increase in cost (per ship) isn't really felt.
Feel free to change the costs, growth rate, or the manner of growth from a multiplicative to an additive increase (independent of base cost). If there's no real impact, then the rate is too small.

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