Various issues I've noticed

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UnifiedStars
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Various issues I've noticed

#1 Post by UnifiedStars »

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After converting a gas giant (Steila I) into an artificial paradise world, I built a chato colony and terraformed it. As one can see from the screen cap, the planet doesn't appear to have changed into an adequete one at all. (Terraforming also removes the Gas Giant Generator, but coverting the gas giant to an artificial paradise does not?)

The A.I. seem to love building duplicate buildings in the same system on different planets.

Another issue I'm having is that the changed resource growth meter values from "Force Energy Structures" isn't being factored into the planet popup windows. When I check a turn later the production values seem to be working correctly, so I think the problem is just the text.

As this is a slightly older version of FO (April 4th), I'm not sure if these problems still appear in newer test builds. Anyways, thanks for your time! :D

Here's some saves: https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B4NpY ... Wl2SnZfb0U
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Morlic
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Re: Various issues I've noticed

#2 Post by Morlic »

UnifiedStars wrote: The A.I. seem to love building duplicate buildings in the same system on different planets.
Could you be more specific? Which buildings? Any special Circumstances?

Do you have a savefile or AI-log of a game with this problem? Or (as last resort) some screenshot of such a system?
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Vezzra
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Re: Various issues I've noticed

#3 Post by Vezzra »

Morlic wrote:Do you have a savefile or AI-log of a game with this problem?
Um, he already provided some save files:
UnifiedStars wrote:Here's some saves: https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B4NpY ... Wl2SnZfb0U

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Re: Various issues I've noticed

#4 Post by UnifiedStars »

Here's some pics of the multiple A.I. buildings problem...

http://imgur.com/a/Yx0tc

I have a feeling that it has something to do with Mu Ursh. It's getting ridiculous that they're building orbital incubators, xenocoordination facilities, and energy compressors/engineering bays at every single colony that contains the damned race, as well as trying to populate all their planets with Mu Ursh. I understand that +2 on weapons is pretty good, but they could at least regulate their military productions centers to only a few stars. Perhaps if they built less buildings and decided on a single ship hull then I wouldn't have dominated them so much (There was also an asteroid processor on one of their previous colonies).
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Re: Various issues I've noticed

#5 Post by MatGB »

It is related to Mu Ursh, the AI used to do it with all shipbuilding species, now it tries to have multiple colonies of Good or Great pilots able to build ships even if they're cutoff. Same applies to why they build multiple hull types and don't really build in batches, they're not very good (yet) at predicting if/when they'll be cut off or defending supply chokepoints, so Dilvish had them spread production around a lot.

It is sub optimal, but it's a lot better than it used to be and has got better regularly last few years.
UnifiedStars wrote: After converting a gas giant (Steila I) into an artificial paradise world, I built a chato colony and terraformed it. As one can see from the screen cap, the planet doesn't appear to have changed into an adequete one at all. (Terraforming also removes the Gas Giant Generator, but coverting the gas giant to an artificial paradise does not?)
Terraforming shouldn't affect the GGG, converting it to a planet should, but there might be some delay based on when it was processed. Also, Gaia doesn't trigger every turn, it's a random chance each time (0.5), it will, eventually, convert it, and do so quicker than terraforming—unless you get really unlucky, random is hopefully close to actually random now (there was an RNG bug) but it's 50% chance each turn in theory.

Worth noting your screenshot does show that it has been converted from a Barren world into a Radiated one, at some point soon it'll become Inferno, then Toxic. It's not instantaneous but it's a good compromise system that I remain quite proud of (artificial paradise world that is, gaia special predates my involvement). We possibly need to explain the effects better and make more use of the wheel of habitability graphics, if you right click the planet and look at the suitability report, it'll hopefully explain things a bit better.
Another issue I'm having is that the changed resource growth meter values from "Force Energy Structures" isn't being factored into the planet popup windows. When I check a turn later the production values seem to be working correctly, so I think the problem is just the text.
It is, known issue, some of the effects that change meters aren't taken into account on the 'next turn' stats, and some are but weirdly (the damage control techs in particular never display correctly). Fixing it is a backend issue and it'll eventually be got to but it's a lower priority at the moment.
As this is a slightly older version of FO (April 4th), I'm not sure if these problems still appear in newer test builds. Anyways, thanks for your time! :D
Thank you, valid concerns. Even if one is working as intended, that it's not working as expected by a newer player remains a problem, we're not explaining things well enough and, let's face it, there's enough to learn in this game as it is.
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Slay
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Re: Various issues I've noticed

#6 Post by Slay »

"the planet doesn't appear to have changed into an adequete one "

Chato have a broad planet tolerance; radiated and barren planets are both considered "poor" by the Chato, even though those types are beside each other on the planet wheel.

so, when the Gaia special randomly terraformed Steila I, from barren to radiated, the quality went from poor to poor XD

(Artificial Paradise Worlds are created with the Gaia special and start at barren)

it appears from your screenshot that no production points have actually been spent on that terraforming, yet. fortunate, it would have been wasted ;)

Chato:
Environmental Preferences:
swamp : adequate
toxic : good
inferno : adequate
radiated : poor
barren : poor
tundra : hostile
desert : hostile
terran : poor
ocean : poor

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Re: Various issues I've noticed

#7 Post by UnifiedStars »

Thanks for the clarification guys! I don't think I realized that Gaia specials were updated for later versions, and heaped loads of micromanagement on myself when trying to terraform an automatically changing world. However, I'm not sure if converting an asteroid belt into a tiny planet is worth it, as currently with all the population techs researched I have 16 pop. on an asteroid. Does a tiny planet even have that much?

I've also noticed that the detection ranges seem somewhat wonky as compared to earlier versions. Sometimes systems that look like they should be revealed aren't.

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Re: Various issues I've noticed

#8 Post by MatGB »

UnifiedStars wrote:Thanks for the clarification guys! I don't think I realized that Gaia specials were updated for later versions, and heaped loads of micromanagement on myself when trying to terraform an automatically changing world. However, I'm not sure if converting an asteroid belt into a tiny planet is worth it, as currently with all the population techs researched I have 16 pop. on an asteroid. Does a tiny planet even have that much?
No, not really, but you can make it a Good world for a non Exobot species and Tiny gets that massive supply boost (which might be more useful if/when we rebalance the supply granting techs). I am however thinking of upping it to Small (Artificial Paradise and Factory Worlds is the relevent thread for discussion).

NB: as a result of your feedback I changed the wordings for the Gaia special and the artificial worlds last night to hopefully be a bit clearer, thanks for the prompt (seriously, writing game documentation is a pain at times, sometimes you completely forget to put something in anywhere because it must be covered elsewhere).
I've also noticed that the detection ranges seem somewhat wonky as compared to earlier versions. Sometimes systems that look like they should be revealed aren't.
I think that's correct, note your detection circle doesn't quite cross the centre of the system which is the point it's measuring to/from, but it may have changed (Geoff?). Try zooming in/out a bit to see if it's clearer where the circles are at different levels.
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Re: Various issues I've noticed

#9 Post by UnifiedStars »

I see, thanks.

If I remember correctly, didn't outposts also have supply? Or was that changed recently? Back in a build at the beginning of the year I could research orbital construction/other supply techs and outposts would gain the benefit too. But now even with orbital construction, my outposts have 0 when they should have 1. (If the mechanic changed then would the pedia need updating?)

(Set default starlane colour to red) Colony at Cassini working correctly with 2 supply (Chato + Orbital Cons.), but outpost at Mambo still has none.
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Re: Various issues I've noticed

#10 Post by MatGB »

Outposts can/do have supply, but it's modified, if you open up the arrows next to the vision range you'll be able to hover over the supply meter, it'll probably say something like Orbital Construction +1, Gas Giant -1 (that's what I've got in front of me in my game).

Supply is modified by planet size, the bigger the gravity well the lower the supply. It's also modified by species, an outpost on a Tiny world will get +2, give it a standard supply species it'll get +1, but give it Mu Ursh it won't get a bonus, give it Etty or George it'll get a bigger bonus.

You can refuel at Mambo, but it won't link up without external help or another bonus (Gravitic Architecture is cheap).

And yes, the Pedia article needs updating, just read it, it appears to be missing a word or two as well as not being clear.
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Re: Various issues I've noticed

#11 Post by UnifiedStars »

Ermm...probably got overlooked during programming, but if you play a solo game the conquest victory popup still pops up.
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I was trying to run the game on a school computer, but the A.I. wouldn't load. I believe that the cause of the problem is due to the firewall & permissions (Locked down so tight I can't even right click lol). Debug console always shows C:/../.., not my ./saves/save folder.

Autosaves also aren't working, b/c they can't change from APPDATA to the manual save dir I think, and I can't access APPDATA. Is there some way to bypass this? Proxy?

Also a small quibble; the cellular growth chamber and xenocoordination facility is unlocked by multiple techs on the organic line, is there a reason for the redundancy? (i.e. Contrived Symbiosis unlocks Growth Chamber, and the next one, Mono-Cellular Expansion also unlocks it too?)
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Re: Various issues I've noticed

#12 Post by MatGB »

UnifiedStars wrote:Ermm...probably got overlooked during programming, but if you play a solo game the conquest victory popup still pops up.
Completely overlooked during testing, I never play solo games ;-)

I forget who did that coding, anyone?

Can't help with the other issue, beyond me, sorry.
Also a small quibble; the cellular growth chamber and xenocoordination facility is unlocked by multiple techs on the organic line, is there a reason for the redundancy? (i.e. Contrived Symbiosis unlocks Growth Chamber, and the next one, Mono-Cellular Expansion also unlocks it too?)
No idea why it used to be that way, it still is that way because I keep forgetting to remove the extra unlocks (techs tell the game what they unlock, it's not buildings telling the game what unlocks them, multiple techs say they unlock the same thing). Plus, until recently working it out manually was going to be a pain but now Geoff's put the icons into the tech research view it'll be quick and easy.

Edit: Done with @793b642
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Re: Various issues I've noticed

#13 Post by UnifiedStars »

Stealthed monsters/ships will still be accounted for in your ship movement when passing a system where they are/will be arriving at. Maybe this can be changed so that your client won't factor it in? (Loaded the game a couple turns early and built a supertester colony)

http://imgur.com/a/yIbzs

For the pedia, some species entries have a preferred focus, while others don't have a line with that information. Would it be better for everything to be consistent? (Kobuntura also have +200% industry, but preferred focus is research?)
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Re: Various issues I've noticed

#14 Post by dbenage-cx »

In the first shot, did you have a ship at that system before?

For the species focus, MatGB recently did a pass on these: forum thread.
The focus preference is what the species enjoys doing, so they will see a happiness bonus from it.
e.g. Kobuntura excel at industry (compared to other species), but they would much rather be trying to find a Precursor.
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Re: Various issues I've noticed

#15 Post by MatGB »

UnifiedStars wrote:Stealthed monsters/ships will still be accounted for in your ship movement when passing a system where they are/will be arriving at. Maybe this can be changed so that your client won't factor it in? (Loaded the game a couple turns early and built a supertester colony)

http://imgur.com/a/yIbzs
Actually, that's a weird side effect of the derelict scout bonus (which we're rewriting soon anyway), you can only see that system because of a vision boost so parts of the game don't know you can see it yet, if you hit end turn you should find you can go on past it without stopping, that there's a monster arriving there shouldn't be affecting it.
For the pedia, some species entries have a preferred focus, while others don't have a line with that information. Would it be better for everything to be consistent? (Kobuntura also have +200% industry, but preferred focus is research?)
Yup, that's all intentional. Most species now have a preferred focus, but not all, and some prefer to do things that aren't the thing they're best at—Kobuntura, specifically, are written to prefer that side and are a bit overpowered anyway, so having them prefer to do what they're not best at is a balance thing and a flavour thing (if it weren't, I might have considered rewriting them). A species I know doesn't have a focus is Gysache, they're, currently, the most overpowered species so I didn't want them to have the benefit.
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