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 Post subject: Question re: Ship builds
PostPosted: Mon Apr 24, 2017 12:36 am 
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Space Kraken

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When I create/build a custom ship (not one of the included builds) I often get 'Incomplete Ship' after the save.

For example. I build a ship using the robotic hull, one Force-field Harmonic shield, one Zortrium Armour plating and three laser weapons. I can save this and use it in the game without issue. Yet when saved using the name robo1, the Pedia window shows>: robo1 - 172 PP and 2 turns - Incomplete Ship

This happens with all my custom builds.

Another issue is when I build a second ship type, i.e. initially created ship with Robotic hull. Next create a ship with an asteroid hull. I had built the Robotic hull ship with Laser weapons, and fully researched to Laser 2 before I built the asteroid hull ship. Yet when I populate the asteroid hull with lasers, they are level 1 not level 2. Is there a reason fro this? Things do seem to correct themselves later when I successfully complete researching Laser 3.

Thank in advance for your help.


- Gene


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 24, 2017 12:50 am 
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Please post screenshots or similar, I don't understand the actual problem or where things are occuring so I can't figure out how to replicate and explain: use a screenshot and crop tool to just show the important stuff and/or resize shots to no more than 1000px wide and we're good.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 24, 2017 4:55 am 
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ghealy wrote:
When I create/build a custom ship (not one of the included builds) I often get 'Incomplete Ship' after the save.
Right, it also happens when loading any of your finished designs -- a single click on one of the designs in the "Design Starts" panel will show the design info in the Pedia Panel and it will be identified then as a "Ship Design" but it will not change whatever else it was previously showing in the Design Details panel; if you double click on the design from the Design Starts panel, though, then it loads up that configuration into the Design Details panel but then considers that to be a design-in-progress (and actually makes a new design with those same parts, I think) and the Pedia Panel entry will be subtitled "Incomplete Design". We should probably add some extra checks so that if the currently displayed design is identical to one already saved then the pedia gets set to show that already-saved design (which would be identified as a "Ship Design") rather than displaying the info on the current (duplicate yet technically distinct) "Incomplete Design"

Quote:
...and fully researched to Laser 2 before I built the asteroid hull ship. Yet when I populate the asteroid hull with lasers, they are level 1 not level 2.
If you just click on the ship part, then it will just show the info for the base level, no matter what level you have researched. Once you add it to a ship design (whether saved or incomplete) then the displayed Pedia entry for that ship design will show total damage that reflects whatever level you have researched). I agree this is kind of a nuisance that the part by itself only shows base damage.

I will try to get around to seeing if these are already entered as Issues on our GutHub site, and if not I'll enter new issues for them; I think that at least the Incomplete Design one would not be too tough to fix, I'd be game to take that on sometime.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 25, 2017 7:19 pm 
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Space Kraken

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My apologies for the slow response. I had forgotten to tick the 'Notify Me when i replay is posted'/

Sorry MatGB. didn't mean to confuse. Dilvish understood my issue re: "Incomplete Ship Design" Hopefully he can spec out want would be needed to correct it.

@Dilvish. Yes you nailed my issue re: 'Incomplete Shop Design'. It is not causing any play issues, just leaves a confused player. (Mind you, I may be easily confused to begin with . :) )

Re: my issue with the weapon levels being out of sync -- Build ship type 1 with laser level 1. research laser lever 2. Ship type 1 weapons update to level 2 laser on next turn assuming they are stationary and within supply line. Build ship Type 2 with Laser weapons. End up being built with Laser level 1, not 2 as I would expect.

In an previous version, each research levels of laser weapons were shown as a separate icon in the available component window. You could show only the latest but turning on/off Redundant. In current version, while I still see the redundant button, turning it on and off still only shows a single icon for laser. Could this be the reason that when I build ship type 2 with I expect to be level 2 laser, I end up with level 1 instead?

I don't have a game open/current that I can take screenshots from. But if you need them, I will tried to do the screen shots in my next game. And FWIW, I have also seen this with plasma weapons


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 25, 2017 8:36 pm 
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ghealy wrote:
Re: my issue with the weapon levels being out of sync -- Build ship type 1 with laser level 1. research laser lever 2. Ship type 1 weapons update to level 2 laser on next turn assuming they are stationary and within supply line. Build ship Type 2 with Laser weapons. End up being built with Laser level 1, not 2 as I would expect.
Hmm, that does sound a bit perplexing, and is not how it's been working for me. What species did you use to build your ship Type 2 in this example? Some species are bad pilots and set your weapons back a level. If that was not the issue, then, hmm, was perchance your shipyard blockaded when the ship was built? (I haven't looked into the code to see if that *should* be an issue, just trying to think of possible things to examine further.)

Quote:
In an previous version, each research levels of laser weapons were shown as a separate icon in the available component window. You could show only the latest but turning on/off Redundant. In current version, while I still see the redundant button, turning it on and off still only shows a single icon for laser. Could this be the reason that when I build ship type 2 with I expect to be level 2 laser, I end up with level 1 instead?
If what you are seeing is not because of the species issue, then it is likely somehow related to the parts change. There is no longer a level 2 etc. laser part distinct from the level 1 laser part-- there is just a laser part, and depending on what tech you have researched and what species is piloting the power of that laser part can be adjusted from the base level. (There were a few reasons for this change, one of which was to allow already-built ships to be upgraded, and another of which was to make the back end processing each turn much more efficient.) The "Redundant" button does not really seem helpful with our current set of ship parts, but if someone makes some new content it might easily be helpful for that. Perhaps that is not enough of a reason to keep it around in the meantime, though.

Quote:
I don't have a game open/current that I can take screenshots from. But if you need them, I will tried to do the screen shots in my next game. And FWIW, I have also seen this with plasma weapons
Yes, if you see this happen again please to take and post screenshots.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 25, 2017 11:29 pm 
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Space Kraken

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I always play as human. I first create robotic hull after researching laser weapons. I then research level 2 laser.y fleet of robotic hulls have their lasers updated the \turn after I complete researching laser 2. Later I research the necesary tech to produce ships utilizing asteroid hulls, and install laser weapons. The game does not create the new ships using level 2 lasers but rather uses level 1 lasers.

I've attached (hopefully :) ) screen captures of the ships parts screen with the redundant button on and off. (though it sounds as if the button itself is now redundant. :) ) also screenshot showing which weapons have been successfully completed, and finally a fleet info window that shows the two ship types and which level laser is installed. I should add that there was no blockade or other interference when the ship type 2 was built

Hoping this helps?

-- Gene


Attachments:
File comment: Fleet info
Fl;eet info.JPG
Fl;eet info.JPG [ 66.04 KiB | Viewed 442 times ]
File comment: Weapons researched
Weapons researched.JPG
Weapons researched.JPG [ 27.57 KiB | Viewed 442 times ]
File comment: Ships Parts redundant off
Ships parts redundant Off.JPG
Ships parts redundant Off.JPG [ 42.69 KiB | Viewed 442 times ]
File comment: Ships Parts redundant on
Ships parts redundant On.JPG
Ships parts redundant On.JPG [ 42.25 KiB | Viewed 442 times ]
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 25, 2017 11:55 pm 
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Exobots have Bad Piloting so they lose a tier, that's working as expected, if you build the asteroid hulls with standard or good pilots you'll see the difference.

(Exobots are meant to be bad at most thing, especially warfare)

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 26, 2017 1:02 am 
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Space Kraken

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Thanks MatGB for explaining what has be driving me crazy for a while. :)


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 26, 2017 1:06 am 
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ghealy wrote:
Thanks MatGB for explaining what has be driving me crazy for a while. :)

That's OK. It's also why we like screenshots, I was worried you'd found a major bug that wasn't showing up for everyone, so thank you for reporting it: we perhaps need to do more to document the relative strengths/weaknesses of different species at various points, or have some sort of "are you sure you want these mindless robots crewing a warship" message.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 26, 2017 1:14 am 
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Space Kraken

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I learned early playing FO that robots produced a smaller troop ship contingent than humans. So I should have realized they were the reason fro the lower tech. Mind you, I like to get asteroid hulls up as early in the game as possible and you don't always find a system that has human habitable planets that also have asteroid belts. I tend to move ship building closer to the enemy as the game progresses, so I'll just pay closer attention to which systems I use.

Again, thanks for all the help. You not only produce a great game, but also give great support.


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