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 Post subject: Re: Turn Slowdown After ~100 Turns
PostPosted: Sun Jan 29, 2012 10:24 pm 
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Vezzra wrote:
The weird thing is that the planet's defense meter shows up as 0 in the UI, although the planet actually has defense 5. And that's weird because all the other meter values of the planet are displayed correctly, so it can't be insufficient detection on the attacker's part. Or does the defense meter have a different visibility than the other meters?
I noticed that, but also noticed that the turn after the battle, the value in the UI has updated. So, it may be that the last time the human player got new info about that planet was when it was at defense 0, but between then and the turn of the battle the player didn't have detection and the defense increased to 5. After the battle, the player had ships in the system long enough to get updated data, so this is shown in subsequent turns.
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On a side note, there are some other weird things I noticed when examining the combat log: Battle rounds where the colonized planets in the system attack the uncolonized ones, battle rounds where ships attack the uncolonized planets in the system...
I noticed that as well. It's likely due to the code that determines which objects are valid targets for each empire not testing whether no-empire is a combatant in the battle, so it instead just lists every object not owned by each empire as a valid target, including unowned objects.
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ship part stats not showing up correctly (mass driver 1 damage as 0, ROF as 0?).
That's a matter of using stats vs. using meters. The Dump function that output those part meter values does just that: it reports meter values. Actually ship attack is determined from part meter stats, which aren't presently implemented or calcualted through effects, so the meter values are misleading. This shouldn't affect that actual battle performance of the ships.


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 Post subject: Re: Turn Slowdown After ~100 Turns
PostPosted: Sun Jan 29, 2012 10:52 pm 
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Geoff the Medio wrote:
I noticed that, but also noticed that the turn after the battle, the value in the UI has updated. So, it may be that the last time the human player got new info about that planet was when it was at defense 0, but between then and the turn of the battle the player didn't have detection and the defense increased to 5. After the battle, the player had ships in the system long enough to get updated data, so this is shown in subsequent turns.

For me, every meter on the enemy planet except detection and stealth show 0. The really odd thing is that the actual bars that represent those meter values (all military meters except stealth and detection) appear to be displaying the correct values, except they're completely red, not the colour they're supposed to be.

Also to (probably) eleazar, is the effectsgroup in buildings.txt supposed to say SetDefense Value + 5, or SetMaxDefense Value + 5? Because as it is now, the planet with the capital has the same max defense as other planets, and just recovers defense at a rate of 5 per turn.

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 Post subject: Re: Turn Slowdown After ~100 Turns
PostPosted: Sun Jan 29, 2012 10:57 pm 
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Bigjoe5 wrote:
For me, every meter on the enemy planet except detection and stealth show 0.
What version are you testing? Try the latest test release from here: http://sourceforge.net/projects/freeori ... rion/Test/ as some issues similar to that were (hopefully) fixed recently.
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...is the effectsgroup in buildings.txt supposed to say SetDefense Value + 5, or SetMaxDefense Value + 5?
Probably it should be +1 or +2 or so, given the additional free combat rounds that planets get in the current version...


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 Post subject: Re: Turn Slowdown After ~100 Turns
PostPosted: Sun Jan 29, 2012 11:20 pm 
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Geoff the Medio wrote:
What version are you testing? Try the latest test release from here: http://sourceforge.net/projects/freeori ... rion/Test/ as some issues similar to that were (hopefully) fixed recently.
Yep, you're right. It is fixed in latest svn.

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 Post subject: Re: Turn Slowdown After ~100 Turns / Combat Oddities
PostPosted: Mon Jan 30, 2012 1:16 am 
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Here's a patch to fix the whole invincible planet thing. First, damage is applied to shields, then to defense, then finally to construction.

Released under CC-BY-SA 3.0 and GNU GPL 2.0 (that's what I'm supposed to say, right?)


Attachments:
DamageMod.patch [2.8 KiB]
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 Post subject: Re: Turn Slowdown After ~100 Turns / Combat Oddities
PostPosted: Mon Jan 30, 2012 1:26 am 
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Bigjoe5 wrote:
Released under CC-BY-SA 3.0 and GNU GPL 2.0 (that's what I'm supposed to say, right?)
Pure C++ code changes are just GPL. The CC license applies (or also applies) to content.
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fix the whole invincible planet thing
Have you tested with these changes...?


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 Post subject: Re: Turn Slowdown After ~100 Turns / Combat Oddities
PostPosted: Mon Jan 30, 2012 1:34 am 
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Geoff the Medio wrote:
Bigjoe5 wrote:
Released under CC-BY-SA 3.0 and GNU GPL 2.0 (that's what I'm supposed to say, right?)
Pure C++ code changes are just GPL. The CC license applies (or also applies) to content.
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fix the whole invincible planet thing
Have you tested with these changes...?

Yeah. Gameplay and logger output are as expected, as far as my changes are concerned).

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 Post subject: Re: Turn Slowdown After ~100 Turns / Combat Oddities
PostPosted: Mon Jan 30, 2012 1:44 am 
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It might still be worth tweaking the tech giving +5 Defense / turn, as while I don't get slaughters of ships quite so fast, they do still get destroyed after a few turns since the planet gets a refill of 5 Defense each turn with which to attack the ships, and often gets in a round of that much damage before the defense is knocked down again by the ships.

That said, planets actually getting +5 defense every turn as things are now isn't too unreasonable; it means that they can take out blockading ships over several turns, at least if the number of ships is relatively small.


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 Post subject: Re: Turn Slowdown After ~100 Turns / Combat Oddities
PostPosted: Mon Jan 30, 2012 1:52 am 
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Geoff the Medio wrote:
It might still be worth tweaking the tech giving +5 Defense / turn, as while I don't get slaughters of ships quite so fast, they do still get destroyed after a few turns since the planet gets a refill of 5 Defense each turn with which to attack the ships, and often gets in a round of that much damage before the defense is knocked down again by the ships.

That said, planets actually getting +5 defense every turn as things are now isn't too unreasonable; it means that they can take out blockading ships over several turns, at least if the number of ships is relatively small.

That's true. I was about to submit a patch fixing the short descriptions of the troop garrison techs, so I can include the change in that patch.

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 Post subject: Re: Turn Slowdown After ~100 Turns / Combat Oddities
PostPosted: Mon Jan 30, 2012 3:46 am 
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I don't know if this means anything, but one of the combat oddities is that it is impossible to take over an AIs planet. I assaulted one with 8 troop ships at once, and it failed.


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 Post subject: Re: Turn Slowdown After ~100 Turns / Combat Oddities
PostPosted: Mon Jan 30, 2012 4:00 am 
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ZGruk wrote:
I don't know if this means anything, but one of the combat oddities is that it is impossible to take over an AIs planet. I assaulted one with 8 troop ships at once, and it failed.
Check their troop levels; If it's 55, you'll need 12 troop ships with 5 troops each to have enough to take the planet. In a test, I was just able to capture an AI planet that had 40 troops using 9 troop ships.


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 Post subject: Re: Turn Slowdown After ~100 Turns / Combat Oddities
PostPosted: Mon Jan 30, 2012 4:20 am 
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Geoff the Medio wrote:
ZGruk wrote:
I don't know if this means anything, but one of the combat oddities is that it is impossible to take over an AIs planet. I assaulted one with 8 troop ships at once, and it failed.
Check their troop levels; If it's 55, you'll need 12 troop ships with 5 troops each to have enough to take the planet. In a test, I was just able to capture an AI planet that had 40 troops using 9 troop ships.

In other words, to win you need to have slightly more troops than the defender.

Also make sure your ships have already blasted their shields/defenses to 0.

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 Post subject: Re: Turn Slowdown After ~100 Turns / Combat Oddities
PostPosted: Mon Jan 30, 2012 5:08 pm 
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OK. That does work. Never seen an AI with so many troops before.

Two more things.

First, the tech "Solar Manipulation" doesn't do anything. It says it unlocks "Solar accelerator" and "Solar rejuvenator" but they don't appear in the build list after you've researched.

Second, more of a gripe than a problem, "Artificial Black Hole" can be built in systems where it can't be used (non-red star systems). It doesn't create a black hole, it just builds it and then does nothing. I haven't tried building it in a red star system, since I don't have any in my current galaxy.


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 Post subject: Re: Turn Slowdown After ~100 Turns / Combat Oddities
PostPosted: Wed Feb 01, 2012 12:50 am 
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I removed the tech, since no other techs seem to have it as a prerequisite. I also added a Location condition to the Artificial Black Hole, so now it can only be built in a system with a red star.

I release my changes under the under CC-BY-SA 3.0 and the GNU GPL 2.0 (I think this needs Creative Commons, since it's technically content). Is the patch file in the right format?


Attachments:
artBlackHole.patch [1.11 KiB]
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