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 Post subject: Re: gateway to the void
PostPosted: Sun Aug 21, 2016 9:52 pm 
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Vacuum Dragon

Joined: Wed Aug 26, 2015 6:15 pm
Posts: 506
I doubt many people really use it, and probably fewer still in multi-player games. It's a tool best used against AIs and monsters, rather than live players.


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 Post subject: Re: gateway to the void
PostPosted: Mon Aug 22, 2016 7:29 am 
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Creative Contributor
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Joined: Fri Jun 28, 2013 11:45 pm
Posts: 3291
defaultuser wrote:
I doubt many people really use it, and probably fewer still in multi-player games. It's a tool best used against AIs and monsters, rather than live players.

Never underestimate the desire of a certain type of player to not lose a game ;-)

We have a number of people that play multiplayer regularly, including one group that've forked their own version to better suit their needs. This is very cool, and I don't want any potential fans to be frustrated because there's an exploit that prevents the game being 'won'. So we fix it.

But it's not going to be a priority for me as testing the fix'll require messing about with savegames in multiplayer or getting the AI to build several of them on outposts, neither of which'll be fun.

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Mat Bowles

Any code or patches in anything posted here is released under the CC and GPL licences in use for the FO project.


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 Post subject: Re: gateway to the void
PostPosted: Sun Oct 16, 2016 11:09 am 
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Space Krill

Joined: Thu Oct 13, 2016 9:49 am
Posts: 3
I tried this once - and wont use it again lol.

I was behind the AI in everything - had several scouts out deep so I could see them coming and had just seen the Gateway msg come up so I thought why not try it.

I built the Gateway on ALL of the colonized worlds before they could get there. (Stupid me, thought this would knock out those killer AI swarms).

Well it did kill the swarms - and my shipyards, drydocks, supply lines, colonies, pretty much everything - it's like a supernova.

Surprise.

I suppose if someone were having a bad day and just wanted to blow up everything - THIS is the way to do it.

Cheers - back to the drawing board ..... hehehe


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 Post subject: Re: gateway to the void
PostPosted: Mon Oct 17, 2016 8:36 am 
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Dyson Forest
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Joined: Fri Jul 29, 2016 10:12 am
Posts: 230
You obviously did not read the description of this building.
It does indeed reduce all planets in the system to outposts.
You obviously do NOT build it in important systems that you want to keep.
Yes sorry but you are correct, stupid you. :(
OK, to be fair, I was unsure what this building did too, but it is very clear it wipes out everything in the system it is built in.
Did you not read this thread first before trying this?

Edit: I was wrong. It does NOT wipe out all buildings


Last edited by EricF on Tue Oct 18, 2016 5:59 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: gateway to the void
PostPosted: Tue Oct 18, 2016 12:35 am 
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Vacuum Dragon

Joined: Wed Aug 26, 2015 6:15 pm
Posts: 506
Evildweeb wrote:
Well it did kill the swarms - and my shipyards, drydocks, supply lines, colonies, pretty much everything - it's like a supernova.

I haven't built one in a game since I started 0.4.6, but it didn't used to destroy all of the infrastructure. Perhaps it does now.

Unless I don't understand the exact changes they made, the shipyards etc. should still be there, but with no colony can't be used. But if you scrap the Gateway and recolonize, you should be able to start using them again, just like with an evacuation or concentration camp.

Next time I have research to spare I'll take a look.


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 Post subject: Re: gateway to the void
PostPosted: Tue Oct 18, 2016 1:57 am 
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Dyson Forest
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Joined: Fri Jul 29, 2016 10:12 am
Posts: 230
Well, I'm not sure either, but you cannot build shipyards and drydocks at outposts so I would assume they would be destroyed.


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 Post subject: Re: gateway to the void
PostPosted: Tue Oct 18, 2016 4:13 am 
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Vacuum Dragon

Joined: Wed Aug 26, 2015 6:15 pm
Posts: 506
EricF wrote:
Well, I'm not sure either, but you cannot build shipyards and drydocks at outposts so I would assume they would be destroyed.

There's a difference between not being able to build and having them destroyed. As I mentioned, you can currently use evacuation and concentration camps to reduce a planet to an outpost without affecting existing buildings.

Recently I had a planet with a different species when I captured Eaxaw at another world. I started an evac on the first one while I was building ships. When that finished, not only did the shipyard etc. remain, but partially-built ships stayed in the queue (frozen). When I repopulated with Eaxaw, they finished the ship builds so that the ships had the better pilots.


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 Post subject: Re: gateway to the void
PostPosted: Tue Oct 18, 2016 6:04 am 
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Dyson Forest
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Joined: Fri Jul 29, 2016 10:12 am
Posts: 230
I just tested it and building a Gateway to the Void does not destroy any previously built buildings.
It just wipes out the population and according to the Troops tool tip it is indeed turned into an Outpost.
I have no idea why Evildweeb claimed it did.


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 Post subject: Re: gateway to the void
PostPosted: Tue Oct 18, 2016 9:00 am 
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Space Kraken

Joined: Mon Nov 16, 2015 5:57 am
Posts: 105
This tech is so abusable and overpowered against the ai or another player that i feel it shouldn't even be in the game as it is. I really feel it should have a limit on the number of ships it can destroy per turn even it that limit is very high.

Further i always felt it actually should be what everything leads to as the final tech just before transcend with transcend requiring it its that op.

Nothing prevents you from using it offensively either, in that way its a one shot on the ai, sneek or escort a colony ship, with just one large fleet into the heart of the ai empire and build it and that ai is done.


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 Post subject: Re: gateway to the void
PostPosted: Tue Oct 18, 2016 5:54 pm 
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Vacuum Dragon

Joined: Wed Aug 26, 2015 6:15 pm
Posts: 506
xlightwavex wrote:
This tech is so abusable and overpowered against the ai or another player that i feel it shouldn't even be in the game as it is. I really feel it should have a limit on the number of ships it can destroy per turn even it that limit is very high.

It's not really much of a threat to live players. Even if they have never heard of it, if they fly a fleet into a totally stealthed system and lose it, then they will probably not do that again. And if they try to fly over the system, they'll find that it's safe to do so and threat diverted. Really it's only a tool against AIs and monsters, who tend to move one system at a time and don't learn well from past events.

Quote:
Further i always felt it actually should be what everything leads to as the final tech just before transcend with transcend requiring it its that op.

That makes no sense. If it's the ultimate research, then you probably would have no use for it as the game will be over.

Quote:
Nothing prevents you from using it offensively either, in that way its a one shot on the ai, sneek or escort a colony ship, with just one large fleet into the heart of the ai empire and build it and that ai is done.

With the ten turn build cycle for the Gateway (not to mention the research time and points), I don't think your scenario is a big deal. If you can bring in a big fleet to deep enemy territory and hold a connected system for ten turns, you probably have them beaten anyway. There's no sneaking around. If you don't hold the system and the supply line, it won't build.

Whole lot of sturm and drang over something that has a few specialized uses and that most players never employ.


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 Post subject: Re: gateway to the void
PostPosted: Wed Oct 19, 2016 12:41 am 
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Dyson Forest
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Joined: Fri Jul 29, 2016 10:12 am
Posts: 230
It is actually useless against another Live Human player.
If you see a completely stealthed system it is pretty obvious what's there.
I actually believe it takes too long to build.
I think it shouldn't take more than two turns to build.
In mid game you could build a pretty formidable fleet in 10 turns, that would be much more useful.


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 Post subject: Re: gateway to the void
PostPosted: Fri Oct 21, 2016 3:10 am 
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Dyson Forest
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Joined: Fri Jul 29, 2016 10:12 am
Posts: 230
Evildweeb wrote:
I tried this once - and wont use it again lol.

I was behind the AI in everything - had several scouts out deep so I could see them coming and had just seen the Gateway msg come up so I thought why not try it.

I built the Gateway on ALL of the colonized worlds before they could get there. (Stupid me, thought this would knock out those killer AI swarms).

Well it did kill the swarms - and my shipyards, drydocks, supply lines, colonies, pretty much everything - it's like a supernova.

Surprise.

I suppose if someone were having a bad day and just wanted to blow up everything - THIS is the way to do it.

Cheers - back to the drawing board ..... hehehe


I suppose we got trolled here as well....


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