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PostPosted: Mon Jul 24, 2017 5:01 am 
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Space Floater

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You can build 20 ships at once with the x symbol, or 1 ship 20 times with the circular arrow rebuild option.

I think the rebuild option might work better as a form of automating a process of shared building. If I want to build 20 ships at once, I already have the option in the x symbol. If I want to build single units, I can queue multiples and send the ships (although this seems to be buggy because it leads to an identical scenario as if you'd built them all with the x symbol multiplier).

To my thinking, the circular arrow functions by building more than one unit but not having that unit attached to anything. Im not sure what other benefit it provides, but this function could be done by a few spam clicks.

Instead, the circular rebuild function could be used for staggering production. Say you put 10 frigates on rebuild and 4 colony ships; it would go frigate - colony ship - frigate - colony ship - frigate - colony ship - frigate - colony ship - frigate -frigate - frigate... etc.

This would create a new way of producing which allows you to insert something into the build order without micromanaging so much as dragging it all the way to the top, etc. One click and it'll get built within a few turns unless you absolutely need it right this minute, and then the normal ''load to front of queue" right click function suffices.


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 24, 2017 6:41 am 
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AI Lead, Programmer
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mwobuddy wrote:
Instead, the circular rebuild function could be used for staggering production. Say you put 10 frigates on rebuild and 4 colony ships; it would go frigate - colony ship - frigate - colony ship - frigate - colony ship - frigate - colony ship - frigate -frigate - frigate... etc.
That's not very far from how it already works, except perhaps you wouldn't want it to start at all on the colony ship until it had finished the previous frigate, and then not start at all on another frigate until it had finished that colony ship? And that functionality would totally replace the current repeat functionality? While I could understand some desire for some more complex repeat options if they could somehow be done without cluttering up the UI too much, I'm afraid the trade-off I'm understanding above is not very appealing to me.

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 24, 2017 11:42 am 
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Release Manager, Design
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mwobuddy wrote:
If I want to build 20 ships at once, I already have the option in the x symbol. If I want to build single units, I can queue multiples and send the ships (although this seems to be buggy because it leads to an identical scenario as if you'd built them all with the x symbol multiplier).
No, that's not a bug, that is actually working as intended, and where the difference to the "repeat build order" option (the "circular arrow function" as you call it) comes in. If you just queue, say, 5 frigates, the PP allocation algorithm of the build queue would first allocate as many PP as possible to the first item. If there are PP left after that, as much of them as possible will be allocated to the second item, and so on. Which means that as much of your queued frigates will be build simultaneously as the amount of available PP allows, and only if there are still some PP left after all 5 frigates have received their share of PP, any further items will get some PP too.

If however you queue only one frigate build order and set the repeat build order option of that item to 5 (to produce 5 frigates), only one frigate will be build simultaneously, the next one being started only if the previous has been finished. Which means more PP will go to items below in the queue. So, with the repeat build order option you can make sure you get a certain amount of a certain ship, without having to either micromanage the queue so your 5 frigates are spread across the build queue (with other items that should also receive PP in between), or your 5 frigates eating up all your PP until all 5 are finished, and with less clutter in the build queue.

As Dilvish already mentioned, of course we could add more sophisticated/complex repeat/batch order options, but the question is, if the benefits are really worth the increased complexity of the build queue UI. We already had questions from new players who had some difficulties understanding the difference between the two repeat order options, this will only get worse if we add even more (and more complicated ones).


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 24, 2017 3:51 pm 
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Dyson Forest
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Vezzra wrote:
the question is, if the benefits are really worth the increased complexity of the build queue UI.
I find the current system to be as good as it can be.


mwobuddy wrote:
the circular rebuild function could be used for staggering production. Say you put 10 frigates on rebuild and 4 colony ships; it would go frigate - colony ship - frigate - colony ship - frigate - colony ship - frigate - colony ship - frigate -frigate - frigate... etc.
You already have that functionality, by queueing this:
- 1x frigate 10 times
- 1x colony 4 times
I can't imagine how could be done that staggering production option in the UI: one entry for two different items? that's incompatible with current implementation; two entries that are somehow interconnected? that's already doable with the repeat mechanics as exemplified above.


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 25, 2017 2:10 am 
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Space Floater

Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2017 4:47 am
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I understand somewhat. I had thought that instead of the process building first a single corvette, then building another corvette, and then building a third, and only then to get on with building a colony ship, the system would've been made so that it load shares. Put a ship type of each into the panel, click the circular rebuild for how many you want, and the design builds the ship in the highest slot, goes to the next ship after that one's done, etc.

I didn't know they share PP, and the mechanics are still a bit of a mystery to me. Sometimes if I'm building, all PP goes to one, even though there's not enough PP for a complete cycle allocated. For instance, I mean that it seems like PP and Time are two minimum requirements. If you have 20 PP income and it takes 33 PP and 2 time, then it builds on time. If you have 10 PP income, then it takes 4 time as not enough can be allocated.


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 25, 2017 3:26 am 
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Hmm, thinking about it there is in the earlier game a use for a repeat mechanic that would put the repeated order at the bottom of the queue.

I tend to want to build scouts a lot and have them repeat at the top, but I then want outposters, cruisers and carriers to alternate unless I interfere. If I could order it so that my outpost order would finish and create a new one at the bottom of the list that would probably actually be fairly useful, not sure I'd want it to replace the current behaviour and also not sure I'd want an extra hard to explain option but the UI could be worked on, maybe a toggle?

Then you've get alternation between warship types and outposters with the ability to move stuff up/down manually when appropriate but not forgetting to requeue things when busy, etc.

@mwobuddy: strongly recommend using outpost ships and then colony buildings instead of colony ships for the most part, it's generally more efficient and safer (there are exceptions).

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 26, 2017 9:33 pm 
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Psionic Snowflake

Joined: Wed Aug 26, 2015 6:15 pm
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I still wouldn't mind a mechanism to add multiple of an item to the queue just like you'd added X number individually. So X number on the queue, able as Mat says to rearrange or cancel as desired. It doesn't come up that often, but on occasion.


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 27, 2017 4:14 am 
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Space Floater

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MatGB wrote:
Hmm, thinking about it there is in the earlier game a use for a repeat mechanic that would put the repeated order at the bottom of the queue.

I tend to want to build scouts a lot and have them repeat at the top, but I then want outposters, cruisers and carriers to alternate unless I interfere. If I could order it so that my outpost order would finish and create a new one at the bottom of the list that would probably actually be fairly useful, not sure I'd want it to replace the current behaviour and also not sure I'd want an extra hard to explain option but the UI could be worked on, maybe a toggle?

Then you've get alternation between warship types and outposters with the ability to move stuff up/down manually when appropriate but not forgetting to requeue things when busy, etc.

@mwobuddy: strongly recommend using outpost ships and then colony buildings instead of colony ships for the most part, it's generally more efficient and safer (there are exceptions).



I agree. Once you get enough PP that it starts dividing across jobs nicely, the circular rebuild option for 20 of x1 ships can stagger production well enough through the PP share. The system as is does work pretty fine. Like default said, its earlier on that such a change might be useful. Its probably too fiddly and inconsequential to matter.


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