Notes on 0.4.1 RC1

[eleazar]

What do you think about my suggestions concerning changing the hull type of the predefined colony and outpost ship designs to basic small hull[...]? Do these make sense...?

Yes, but what I think makes even more sense is removing that internal slot from the small hull. It's reasonable that at least in the early game, the tradeoff for getting the extra functionality of an internal ship part should be significant.

The scout needs his fuel-tank.
I'd rather solve the colony slot problem like this:

* New ships part slot type: "Special". It is a full square, and rarely found on hulls. Used for colonies and outpost mods and super-weapons. Takes the place of the "large" slot type previously discussed presumably with less trouble.

...and the change to the refuel mechanic...

I agree with this as well. I always find myself losing track of ships if I need to leave them lying around for a turn.

Those fuel changes seem to be beside the point. Loosing ships is still going to be a big problem. A sortable/filterable screen for ships or fleets is what is needed. And it is maybe something we can do in 0.4.2.

"Aggressive" ships only attack enemy ships

If by "enemy" you mean "empire which I'm at war with", then yes, that should be correct (from what I've seen in my recent playtest). Meaning I can't stop any other fleets from passing through my defensive positions. What if I want to block passage through a system to all but fleets from allied empires, without outright declaring war on everyone else? That's not an uncommon scenario...

I've mentioned before i foresee one of the diplomatic relationships being: "I won't attack you unless you entire one of my systems"

"Passive" ships only refrain from attacking enemy ships when they are undetected.

When I set a fleet to "passive", I want it to avoid combat. If they are detected, they should try to retreat/evade (not possible with the current implementation of combat, but once that becomes possible, that's what I want a "passive" fleet to do), not turn around and attack. Fighting back should be the last resort for a "passive" fleet (if it can't hide from/outrun the enemy).

That little toggle switch is not supposed to be a replacement for controlling combat. It will be in the combat (or perhaps pre-combat screen) where you decide to fight or run away, and how. Currently we don't have any of that, and enemy ships just fight.

I don't think there is or should be any attempt to replicate the MoO3 possibility of having mutually visible enemy fleets sit around in the same system without fighting. That just drains the tension out of the situation, and increases the number of sit-reps.

I see where you want to go, but that's exactly what I want to be able to: Have the option to not be forced into combat, as long as the enemy (or maybe just a none-allied) fleet also doesn't want to attack. Why do you think that this will drain tension out of the situation? I don't see how two not passive, not allied fleets in one system being forced to engage in combat adds to tension (at least in a way that's fun), to me that's rather annoying than fun. I've to agree with BigJoe here, I don't see the advantage of that system. And why do you think this would increase the number of sit-reps?

Every turn an enemy fleet is sitting in your systems, there needs to be some sort of notification that a battle could take place. And you need to decide to attack or not.

Why i think it drains the tension?
"Oh no, my system Xenon is being invaded my an enemy fleet! Can i hold them off? Should i retreat? Oh wait, i don't have to decide -- they aren't attacking me.
I'll just wait.
"Dum, de dum -- taking my turn with an enemy fleet parked by my planet. "End Turn""
"Yep, there's still a fleet on my doorstep-- no biggie, i'll just ignore it, and maybe they will go away while i deal with these other guys."

[Geoff the Medio]

These discussions are interesting, but not really relevant to v0.4.1... It might be best to have separate thread(s) for anything requiring more than a post or two of discussion.

[swimjade]

If you set the galaxy generation option for monsters to none, the galaxy still generates with sentrys, but no other monsters.

[eleazar]

If you set the galaxy generation option for monsters to none, the galaxy still generates with sentrys, but no other monsters.

Yeah, those "monsters" aren't random, but spawned in systems with valuable resources 70% of the time.

I don't think i want them to be subject to "turning off" though admittedly the current labeling is confusing.

[Geoff the Medio]

If there are no further relevant issues with the v0.4.1 RC2, then I'll rename it to the actual release soon...

[eleazar]

has anybody tried it?

[Vezzra]

...I'd rather solve the colony slot problem like this:...

While I absolutely agree that long term there needs to be a better solution than making small colony ships, I still suggest that for the 0.4.1 release we change the predefined colony and outpost ships designs to basic small hull (as a temporary solution). Prior to the release we won't get in something that prevents the player from doing that himself, and it doesn't make sense IMO to offer predefined ship designs that are significantly inferior to something the player can easily replace them with (and thereby gaining even more an edge over the already extremly rudimentary AI which of course will use the inferior predefined designs).

[Vezzra]

If there are no further relevant issues with the v0.4.1 RC2, then I'll rename it to the actual release soon...

A little more time for people to test it can't hurt I think... it may take a while for some to come around and give it a try

[sword2]

Workaround: Exobots can currently colonize asteroids.

That's a workaround but then they start dying since it's not even adequate. I assumed I could build more and send the colony ships to boost the population but you cant do that.

I may have missed the answer to this problem in other posts but how do you keep them from dying off in uninhabitable planets? Is there a tech?

Thank you.

[eleazar]

Workaround: Exobots can currently colonize asteroids.

That's a workaround but then they start dying since it's not even adequate. I assumed I could build more and send the colony ships to boost the population but you cant do that.

Sorry, i recently discovered there is another glitch that prevents asteroids populations from working as intended.

[sword2]

I see, so until asteroid size is set or building asteroid ship requirements is fixed to simply doing so from a close* colony then you have to keep repopulating them when they die.

[eleazar]

I see, so until asteroid size is set or building asteroid ship requirements is fixed to simply doing so from a close* colony then you have to keep repopulating them when they die.

Advanced techs like orbital habitation and (i think) transdimensional structures will let you add population to asteroids-- at least for species that are supposed to be able to live there.

[sword2]

I see, so until asteroid size is set or building asteroid ship requirements is fixed to simply doing so from a close* colony then you have to keep repopulating them when they die.

Advanced techs like orbital habitation and (i think) transdimensional structures will let you add population to asteroids-- at least for species that are supposed to be able to live there.

N-Dimentional Structures does add +15 to it and Orbital Habitation adds another 5. That is a workaround since it allows you to grow some exobots in there and build your asteroid ships which are huge specially if you get them earlier in the game. I did have to re-habitate my asteroid outpost about 4 times before I got those techs. Orbital Habitation would have saved me the trouble if I had done it early enough.