6654 w/ Jan 26th content

[Sloth]

My thoughts on r6923:

1. Supply meters growing by +1/turn is much better than instand growth to max.

2. The supply macros for species are much too complicated at the moment. Bad supply only influences medium planets, great supply only influences tiny and large planets. That's not KISS.

I propose simple macros:
Bad Supply +0.5
Average Supply +1
Great Supply +1.5
Ultimate Supply +2

To give tiny and small planets an advantage i would change the first supply boosting tech (currently Orbital Construction, but that could change too) to:
Tiny +2
Small +1.5
Medium +1
Large +0.5

Differentiations like this can be much clearer to the user when they don't happen from the start, but come disguised as a bonus later in the game.

3. Space Elevator should not double supply. Doubling something gets out of hand quickly.

PS: This discussion should be moved to a new thread in scripting and balancing.

[Geoff the Medio]

...Supply meters...

Feel free to make and post a patch...

[Geoff the Medio]

3. Space Elevator should not double supply. Doubling something gets out of hand quickly.

Consider that without doubling effects being available, giving +0.5 supply range bonuses doesn't do anything useful.

[Krikkitone]

3. Space Elevator should not double supply. Doubling something gets out of hand quickly.

Consider that without doubling effects being available, giving +0.5 supply range bonuses doesn't do anything useful.

Giving +0.5 does have an effect If it is applied broadly to multiple targets... some of which might be 0.5 or 1.5 and some of which might be 1 or 2.

(ie Large world+0.5 Average supply Species+1)

Moves from effectively 1 to 2 supply if you add another +0.5

[Dilvish]

Giving +0.5 does have an effect If it is applied broadly to multiple targets... some of which might be 0.5 or 1.5 and some of which might be 1 or 2. (ie Large world+0.5 Average supply Species+1) Moves from effectively 1 to 2 supply if you add another +0.5

Although that seems to negate Sloth's reason to propose new numbers to begin with:

The supply macros for species are much too complicated at the moment. Bad supply only influences medium planets, great supply only influences tiny and large planets. That's not KISS.

[Geoff the Medio]

Giving +0.5 does have an effect If it is applied broadly to multiple targets... some of which might be 0.5 or 1.5 and some of which might be 1 or 2.

I don't think there are many / any other instances of giving +0.5 supply range bonuses...

[MatGB]

I'm agreeing that this'll need some work to make good (and it is nicer to play with once you're used to it, completely threw me the first time I colonised out of supply range but...), but I'm not sold on Sloth's suggested numbers, however...

I propose simple macros:
Bad Supply +0.5
Average Supply +1
Great Supply +1.5
Ultimate Supply +2

To give tiny and small planets an advantage i would change the first supply boosting tech (currently Orbital Construction, but that could change too) to:
Tiny +2
Small +1.5
Medium +1
Large +0.5

Bad Supply plus Small = 2, Great Supply + Small = 3, so even in the very limited confines of creature + planet size giving different bonuses you would get it working through. It's not necessarily a bad idea, but I'm not sold on it yet and we'd need to work through different iterations I think.

Similarly I'm not sold on Space Elevator losing it's doubling bonus in favour of a static numerical boost as I'm not of the opinion, currently, that it's overpowered, it certainly isn't within the current game setup and numbers, especially with the 1 per turn growth that we've now implemented. However, once we've gone through possible choices for good/bad supply and planet size advantages it may be the case that it has the potential to be overpowering and may need reassessing.

I love that we've implemented this, thanks Geoff, it's actually slowing me down and making me think more, I still can't get into the habit of filling internal slots with fuel by default, but I think I may have to.

[MatGB]

Observations:

1) Outposts now have 'average colony supply' +1 without any techs, which isn't ideal to my mind

2) Captured planets don't lose supply, is it possible to have a newly captured enemy or independent planet start at 1 and build up?

[Geoff the Medio]

...is it possible to have a newly captured enemy or independent planet start at 1 and build up?

Yes, though I started them at 0.

[MatGB]

Works for me, cool.

[Geoff the Medio]

1) Outposts now have 'average colony supply' +1 without any techs, which isn't ideal to my mind

Can you suggest a better tech in which to put the first increase to outpost supply range in then? Currently it comes with Environmental Encapsulation, which also unlocks the outpost module...

[MatGB]

Before this change, they started on supply 0, you had to get Orbital Construction to give them supply 1 then they gained from there but would always be less than genuine colonies. I'd be happy with that, you take OrbCon early enough it makes them effective bridges, as is they can let you extend range between colonies very easily.

I don't actually mind one way or the other, I mentioned it because despite reduces supply in general you've increased it for outposts and I wasn't sure it was intended.