OSX Input

Describe your experience with the latest version of FreeOrion to help us improve it.

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coCoKNIght
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OSX Input

#1 Post by coCoKNIght »

Thanks for making these builds! It's probably already known, but I thought I'd mention it anyway just in case, and this is Mac specific as far as I can tell:
  • form fields don't work as expected (No copy paste, no double-click or cmd+a, and in the late game, entering text lags really badly and key strokes are repeated)
  • In the late game, adding items to the production queue takes really long (and this is the part of the game where you want to queue 10+ troop ships etc...)
  • Also in the late game double-clicking a star system often fails to bring up the production screen

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Dilvish
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Re: Up-to-date FreeOrion Mac-SDK and build - Test please!

#2 Post by Dilvish »

coCoKNIght wrote:Thanks for making these builds! It's probably already known, but I thought I'd mention it anyway just in case, and this is Mac specific as far as I can tell:
form fields don't work as expected (No copy paste, no double-click or cmd+a, and in the late game, entering text lags really badly and key strokes are repeated)
The default keystrokes for copy/paste might be windows/linux centric, i.e., ctrl-c etc. instead of cmd -- have you tried that?
In the late game, adding items to the production queue takes really long (and this is the part of the game where you want to queue 10+ troop ships etc...) Also in the late game double-clicking a star system often fails to bring up the production screen[/list]
The GiGi processing of double click is a bit odd it seems to me, and yes, is sensitive to lag. For production issues this should no longer be a significant problem since RightClick->add_to_queue is now supported (if you have just a one-button mouse then you might need to do option-click on mac but it may also not yet be supported). I think the tech screen is still requiring double-clicks, though, hopefully that will get dealt with soon as well.
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Geoff the Medio
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Re: Up-to-date FreeOrion Mac-SDK and build - Test please!

#3 Post by Geoff the Medio »

coCoKNIght wrote:[*]form fields don't work as expected (No copy paste, no double-click or cmd+a...)
They do work... sometimes, and sort of. Due to how modal windows are set up, hotkeys never work while a modal window is open (eg. options screen, galaxy setup dialog). But for things like the chat window and design screen text boxes, selected text should be cut, copy and pasted. For the multi-line text pedia window, it will copy selected text, unless you start select at the start of a line, in which case it mixes up the selection area and I seem to get text from the start of the whole text, not the selected part.
select, ctrl+c in pedia
select, ctrl+c in pedia
pedia.png (20.27 KiB) Viewed 1100 times
ctrl+v in description
ctrl+v in description
design.png (7.31 KiB) Viewed 1100 times
ctrl+v in chat
ctrl+v in chat
messages.png (9.71 KiB) Viewed 1100 times

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Vezzra
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Re: Up-to-date FreeOrion Mac-SDK and build - Test please!

#4 Post by Vezzra »

coCoKNIght wrote:form fields don't work as expected (No copy paste, no double-click or cmd+a,
As Dilvish already mentioned, FO doesn't use platform specific hotkeys, but it's own, which are the standard Windows hotkeys: CTRL+X (cut), CTRL+C (copy), CTRL+V (paste). These do work on my Mac.
and in the late game, entering text lags really badly and key strokes are repeated)
I only encounter that problem in the design screen in the design name input field, and there it's a common problem, not Mac specific. Other text fields should work fine, I haven't noticed any lags there.
Also in the late game double-clicking a star system often fails to bring up the production screen
Hm, works for me in a test game with a 500 star systems map, 10 AI on turn 220+... you have to select the system first, though. If you double click on a system that you haven't selected before, the system just gets selected. I haven't checked that behaviour on Windows, but I guess it's the same there.

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MatGB
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Re: Up-to-date FreeOrion Mac-SDK and build - Test please!

#5 Post by MatGB »

For the repeat keytroke things, I get the late game lag somethign chronic, but if you go into options and set the repeat keystroke settings to zero, it goes away. There's still lag, but you can type names without ending up with rrrooobbboootttiiiccc or similar.
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Geoff the Medio
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Re: Up-to-date FreeOrion Mac-SDK and build - Test please!

#6 Post by Geoff the Medio »

Vezzra wrote:...FO doesn't use platform specific hotkeys, but it's own, which are the standard Windows hotkeys: CTRL+X (cut), CTRL+C (copy), CTRL+V (paste). These do work on my Mac.
These hotkeys are all configurable in the options screen. I don't know if or how the "cmd" key works in OIS, GiGi, or FreeOrion specific code, though, as I don't have a Mac to test on. The default hotkey bindings could be made OS-specific, if so desired.

If someone can test and let me know what is the internal modkey representation, if any, of holding the cmd key while pressing another key, it would be helpful.

It's probably also possible to set something up some cmd+click is interpreted as a right click, if that's deemed necessary...

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coCoKNIght
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Re: Up-to-date FreeOrion Mac-SDK and build - Test please!

#7 Post by coCoKNIght »

That's a bit stupid of me, that I didn't try copy pasting using the ctrl key, but then again, mac users are so used to using the cmd key...
I don't think anybody uses a one button mouse anymore though, lol.
Right-clicking to add items to the production queue takes even longer than double-clicking in the late game (it laggs equally, but requires more steps).
I'm always playing with 1000+ starsystems and with max players, maybe it doesn't happen with 500 starsystems or with less players. Also I get these lags on both my macs and they're both fairly recent models with quiet some power.

By the way I'm also always playing with my brother over the internet, and he's using Windows and does not experience any lags. Also I've tried FO on my Linux partition and it runs like a charm (except for multiplayer) and I was surprised as to how good the text input works (so that's what made me think that was a Mac issue)

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coCoKNIght
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Re: Up-to-date FreeOrion Mac-SDK and build - Test please!

#8 Post by coCoKNIght »

Geoff the Medio wrote:If someone can test and let me know what is the internal modkey representation, if any, of holding the cmd key while pressing another key, it would be helpful.
cmd+c is displayed as META+c in the keyboard preferences of FO. Is that what you're asking?

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Geoff the Medio
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Re: Up-to-date FreeOrion Mac-SDK and build - Test please!

#9 Post by Geoff the Medio »

coCoKNIght wrote:cmd+c is displayed as META+c in the keyboard preferences of FO. Is that what you're asking?
Yes. Does that work for copying text in the chat window if set as the hotkey (and a similar key combo is used for paste)?

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coCoKNIght
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Re: Up-to-date FreeOrion Mac-SDK and build - Test please!

#10 Post by coCoKNIght »

Geoff the Medio wrote:Yes. Does that work for copying text in the chat window if set as the hotkey (and a similar key combo is used for paste)?
Yes, META+c, META+v etc... work fine in the messages window which I assume is what you call the chat window.

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Vezzra
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Re: Up-to-date FreeOrion Mac-SDK and build - Test please!

#11 Post by Vezzra »

coCoKNIght wrote:Yes, META+c, META+v etc... work fine
I can confirm that, tried it myself, works perfectly.

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Re: Up-to-date FreeOrion Mac-SDK and build - Test please!

#12 Post by Vezzra »

coCoKNIght wrote:I don't think anybody uses a one button mouse anymore though, lol.
Yep, that would be like trying to support universal binaries or something like that. Given the fact we already seriously consider dropping support for 10.6, any effort to support the ancient one button mouse is kind of pointless ;)
I'm always playing with 1000+ starsystems and with max players
Oh boy, that explains a lot. Although the game allows maps up to 5000 star systems, officially we only support/recommend games with 500 star systems max. Consider anything beyond that "out of spec" ;)
maybe it doesn't happen with 500 starsystems or with less players
Well, not that you won't get any lag at all, but it should be far better than with your standard setup.
Also I get these lags on both my macs and they're both fairly recent models with quiet some power
1000+ systems and 21 players will bring even very powerful machines to their knees in late game.
By the way I'm also always playing with my brother over the internet, and he's using Windows and does not experience any lags. Also I've tried FO on my Linux partition and it runs like a charm (except for multiplayer) and I was surprised as to how good the text input works (so that's what made me think that was a Mac issue)
Now that sounds very surprising. I don't think I ever heard from anyone who did not experience lags at least in late game on larger maps. In fact much of our efforts in the last year have been directed toward optimizing effect execution (which is the main cause for the lags), because it was that big a problem.

If the games you're playing with your brother also are 1000+ star systems / 20 AI, then it sounds almost unbelievable that he doesn't experience any lags at all...?

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MatGB
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Re: Up-to-date FreeOrion Mac-SDK and build - Test please!

#13 Post by MatGB »

For me (Windows, low spec laptop, no dedicated graphics card), lag starts to kick in if I've got any one of 150+ populated planets, 200+ ships or omni scanner and a big, busy map. Any two of the three combined it becomes terrible, all three unplayable.

Hence my liking Low Planets as a setting because that way I can still have a large system map but there's a lot to explore &c. I also ruthlessly scrap older ships/scouts/etc and make good use of stargate networks and similar to prevent the need for garrisons in the mid to late game.

(suggestion: split the discussion from this thread witha title like Macs, settings and late game lag as it's a useful discussion that's in a thread about test builds...)
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adrian_broher
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Re: Up-to-date FreeOrion Mac-SDK and build - Test please!

#14 Post by adrian_broher »

Could a Mod please strip out the input discussion into a different thread?
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