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 Post subject: Chato default focus
PostPosted: Sun Feb 21, 2016 12:20 am 
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Dyson Forest
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Posts: 214
Shouldn't the Chato default focus (for a new colony) be Research, instead of industry?

The Humans do this, and they don't even have the racial Great Research.


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 Post subject: Re: Chato default focus
PostPosted: Sun Feb 21, 2016 4:24 am 
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Joined: Sun Feb 14, 2016 12:08 am
Posts: 359
Industry is the default unless the species has a preferred focus, which grants a happiness bonus where they use it.
Etty have a research preference but are no better than average.

The pedia will show if a species has a preferred focus, just before listing the environment preferences.

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 Post subject: Re: Chato default focus
PostPosted: Sun Feb 21, 2016 5:23 am 
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Vacuum Dragon

Joined: Wed Aug 26, 2015 6:15 pm
Posts: 507
The question is why, if Chato are so good at research, isn't that the default focus? I seem to remember that it has to do with the starting numbers of the game. You'll start with a large number at your homeworld of whatever your preferred focus is. I think they didn't want Chato to start out with a large research number. Or I could be misremembering totally.


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 Post subject: Re: Chato default focus
PostPosted: Sun Feb 21, 2016 8:26 am 
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Reason they don't have a preferred focus: no one's coded it

Generally in this game when something's obviously in need of doing it's because no one's had time and/or remembered when they did have time.

For what it's worth, I think Chato should be default research, and quite a few others need to have preferences set for the happiness bonus if nothing else, including a few with preferences for industry. I'm actually tempted to give Cray an Industry preference ("happy, industrious robots") because it's against traits.

Trith and Eaxaw need them. Which makes doing it more work than simply setting Chato as it should be done at once.

So, y'know, if someone wants to list all the species without a preference and suggest one (Raargh could have Defence just to be really annoying) I'll happily code it up, or if someone else codes it and makes a PR on Github I'll merge it if there aren't problems.

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 Post subject: Re: Chato default focus
PostPosted: Sun Feb 21, 2016 10:53 am 
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Programmer

Joined: Sun Feb 14, 2016 12:08 am
Posts: 359
Species (Industry/Research): Focus

Playable
  • Chato (Avg/Great)
    :
  • Cray (Bad/Good)
    :
  • Eaxaw (Avg/Avg)
    :
  • Egassem (Ult/Bad)
    :
  • Etty (Bad/Avg)
    : Research
  • George (Good/Bad)
    :
  • Gysache (Good/Great)
    :
  • Human (Avg/Avg)
    : Research
  • Laenfa (Avg/Bad)
    :
  • Trith (Avg/Avg)
    :
  • Ugmores (Good/Bad)
    :

Native
  • Abadonni (Avg/Bad):
    :
  • Acirema (Great/Good/NoColony):
    :
  • Beigegoo (Great/NONE/NoColony/NoShips):
    :
  • Cynos (NONE/Avg/NoColony):
    :
  • Derthrean (Avg/Avg):
    :
  • Fiftyseven (NONE/Ult/NoColony/NoShip):
    :
  • Furthest (Avg/Bad/NoShip):
    :
  • Gisgufgthrim (Bad/Good/NoShip):
    :
  • Happy (Bad/Good):
    :
  • Hhhoh (Avg/Avg):
    :
  • Kobuntura (Great/Avg):
    :
  • Muursh (Avg/Bad):
    :
  • Nymnmn (NONE/Avg/NoColony/NoShip):
    :
  • Ourbools (Bad/Avg/NoColony/NoShip):
    :
  • Phinnert (Avg/NONE/NoShip):
    :
  • Raagh (Bad/NONE/NoColony/NoShip):
    :
  • Scylior (Avg/Great)
    : Research
  • Setinon (Bad/Avg):
    :
  • Silexian (NONE/Bad/NoShip):
    :
  • Taeghirus (Good/Avg):
    :
  • Trenchers (Good/NONE/NoColony/NoShip):
    :
  • Volp (Avg/Avg/NoColony/NoShip):
    :
  • Hiddengardener (NONE/NONE/Only Growth or an advanced focus'):
    :

Other:
  • Banforo (Good/Avg):
    :
  • Exobot (Avg/Bad):
    :
  • Experimentor (NONE/Ult/NoColony/NoShip):
    :
  • Kilandow (Avg/Great):
    :
  • Misiorla (Bad/Bad):
    :
  • Supertest:
    :
I don't mind making a PR, but with only 3 populated it would likely change quite a few times if not settled on.

Not all of these need a focus related to their proficiency (Might be the best fighter, doesn't mean you prefer to do it)

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 Post subject: Re: Chato default focus
PostPosted: Sun Feb 21, 2016 8:21 pm 
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Joined: Fri Jun 28, 2013 11:45 pm
Posts: 3295
dbenage-cx wrote:
Species (Industry/Research): Focus

Playable
  • Chato (Avg/Great)
    :

Research
Quote:
  • Cray (Bad/Good)
    :
  • I said above Industry, but the actual tagline is "Cheerful enthusiastic robots" and it clearly says they're bad at building things, so research.
    Quote:
  • Eaxaw (Avg/Avg)
    :
  • They need one, and it needs to not be the same as the Trith, so I'm going to plump for Industry
    Quote:
  • Egassem (Ult/Bad)
    :
  • Industry
    Quote:
  • Etty (Bad/Avg)
    : Research
  • George (Good/Bad)
    :
  • Industry
    Quote:
  • Gysache (Good/Great)
    :
  • None. They're still really good despite balancing efforts and they're all rounders anyway.
    Quote:
  • Human (Avg/Avg)
    : Research
  • Laenfa (Avg/Bad)
    :
  • Industry
    Quote:
  • Trith (Avg/Avg)
    :
  • Research, it suits their description better.
    Quote:
  • Ugmores (Good/Bad)
    :
  • Industry (these guys aren't playable, they're natives, but still industry)
    Quote:
    Native
    • Abadonni (Avg/Bad):
      :
    They're slaves to a sentient computer that doesn't like them thinking. Industry
    Quote:
  • Acirema (Great/Good/NoColony):
    :
  • None
    Quote:
  • Beigegoo (Great/NONE/NoColony/NoShips):
    :
  • Industry
    Quote:
  • Cynos (NONE/Avg/NoColony):
    :
  • Either Research or None
    Quote:
  • Derthrean (Avg/Avg):
    :
  • Research, pacifistic balloons
    Quote:
  • Fiftyseven (NONE/Ult/NoColony/NoShip):
    :
  • Research, their description says it makes them happy
    Quote:
  • Furthest (Avg/Bad/NoShip):
    :
  • Don't know, if there was still a stealth focus then that. Anyone have an opinion?
    Quote:
  • Gisgufgthrim (Bad/Good/NoShip):
    :
  • Research, purely for gameplay preference
    Quote:
  • Happy (Bad/Good):
    :
  • Happybirthday already have Research and I think this should stay until we introduce a new focus for trade/influence
    Quote:
  • Hhhoh (Avg/Avg):
    :
  • They're not keen on change. Industry
    Quote:
  • Kobuntura (Great/Avg):
    :
  • They seek the knowledge of the Precursors. Research
    Quote:
  • Muursh (Avg/Bad):
    :
  • Hmm, I wrote their description and it's no help at all. For balance, I think none, for flavour veering towards Industry. Opinions? They're overpowered, no happiness boost would tone them down if/when we introduce happiness requirements for shipbuilding.
    Quote:
  • Nymnmn (NONE/Avg/NoColony/NoShip):
    :
  • I don't think they care. None
    Quote:
  • Ourbools (Bad/Avg/NoColony/NoShip):
    :
  • Research
    Quote:
  • Phinnert (Avg/NONE/NoShip):
    :
  • Industry
    Quote:
  • Raagh (Bad/NONE/NoColony/NoShip):
    :
  • Defence, just because
    Quote:
  • Scylior (Avg/Great)
    : Research
  • No change
    Quote:
  • Setinon (Bad/Avg):
    :
  • Defence
    Quote:
  • Silexian (NONE/Bad/NoShip):
    :
  • Logistics, if that's possible, otherwise Research
    Quote:
  • Taeghirus (Good/Avg):
    :
  • Industry, they like workign together
    Quote:
  • Trenchers (Good/NONE/NoColony/NoShip):
    :
  • None, they don't care for anything other than carving (and they need an expanded entry text, volunteers?)
    Quote:
  • Volp (Avg/Avg/NoColony/NoShip):
    :
  • Again, Logistics if possible, if not Defence (because they're a really good early game grab and it'll tone them down a bit)
    Quote:
  • Hiddengardener (NONE/NONE/Only Growth or an advanced focus'):
    :
  • They don't exist in game as they're commented out, and I think that's really a permanent thing.
    Quote:
    Other:
    • Banforo (Good/Avg):
      :
    Industry
    Quote:
  • Exobot (Avg/Bad):
    :
  • None
    Quote:
  • Experimentor (NONE/Ult/NoColony/NoShip):
    :
  • Research, not that it matters
    Quote:
  • Kilandow (Avg/Great):
    :
  • Research, obvs
    Quote:
  • Misiorla (Bad/Bad):
    :
  • Logistics, because they all want to fly, even merchant ships
    Quote:
  • Supertest:
    :
  • Irrelevent, None because they're already OTT.
    Quote:
    I don't mind making a PR, but with only 3 populated it would likely change quite a few times if not settled on.
    If the groundwork is done then future balancing tweaks are easier.
    Quote:
    Not all of these need a focus related to their proficiency (Might be the best fighter, doesn't mean you prefer to do it)

    Agree. And for balance some don't want/need a preference at all.

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    Mat Bowles

    Any code or patches in anything posted here is released under the CC and GPL licences in use for the FO project.


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     Post subject: Re: Chato default focus
    PostPosted: Sun Feb 21, 2016 11:49 pm 
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    Programmer

    Joined: Sun Feb 14, 2016 12:08 am
    Posts: 359
    Not certain if Logistics would pose a problem for AI (haven't looked into it yet).
    [hide]
    Code:
    class AIFocusType(object):
        FOCUS_PROTECTION = "FOCUS_PROTECTION"
        FOCUS_GROWTH = "FOCUS_GROWTH"
        FOCUS_INDUSTRY = "FOCUS_INDUSTRY"
        FOCUS_RESEARCH = "FOCUS_RESEARCH"
        FOCUS_TRADE = "FOCUS_TRADE"
        FOCUS_CONSTRUCTION = "FOCUS_CONSTRUCTION"
        FOCUS_MINING = "FOCUS_MINING"
        FOCUS_HEAVY_MINING = "FOCUS_HEAVY_MINING"
    [/hide]
    Left Misiola with none.
    Silexian with Research.
    Volp with Protection.

    Gave Furthest growth. With the constant paranoia, figured they would be happiest after security (but not providing it).

    Left Mu Ursh with none, favoring balance.

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     Post subject: Re: Chato default focus
    PostPosted: Fri Feb 17, 2017 6:55 pm 
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    Creative Contributor
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    Joined: Fri Jun 28, 2013 11:45 pm
    Posts: 3295
    Bumping this as it's been suggested the following be changed in Kobuntura should prefer the industry focus by l29ah · Pull Request #1332 · freeorion/freeorion
    MatGB wrote:
    dbenage-cx wrote:
    Species (Industry/Research): Focus

    [*]Kobuntura (Great/Avg):
    :
    They seek the knowledge of the Precursors. Research

    I want it to stay Research because a) Flavour, b) Balance (they're still overpowered, that's partially a Self Sustaining problem tho) and c) I want some species to prefer doing things they're not as good at, just because you're better than others as a species doesn't mean it's what your society is meant to do, the Kobuntura specifically want to find the Precursors.

    If the consensus is it should change I don't strongly object, but my preference is the status quo and as a reversal of a deliberate decision REALLY doesn't belong in a PR I'm bringing it here.

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     Post subject: Re: Chato default focus
    PostPosted: Sun Feb 19, 2017 9:11 am 
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    Release Manager, Design
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    Joined: Wed Nov 16, 2011 12:56 pm
    Posts: 4307
    Location: Sol III
    The complaint is that it's a bit annoying/micromanagy to have to switch a new (or newly conquered) Kobuntura colony to industry. The problem here is that currently it's still a no-brainer to do so, so the idea to switch them back to have industry as preferred focus makes some sense (until we add the mechanics which will make that no longer a no-brainer of course).

    However, I still slightly lean toward keeping research as preferred focus nonetheless. For the reasons Mat cited it's an interesting choice we'll want to switch back to anyway, and if we switch to industry now we'll have to remember to switch back once happiness becomes more important. That's hopefully going to happen soon enough, so the very moderate annoyance of having to switch the Kobuntura's focus isn't big enough an issue to warrant the extra work and the risk of forgetting to switch the preferred focus back, IMO.


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