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 Post subject: A little bit of politics
PostPosted: Fri Jun 24, 2016 5:32 am 
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A week ago, 7 miles from my house, a woman was shot three times and stabbed repeatedly. She died. I'd not met her, but I knew of her through friends, all of whom respected her, she wasn't from my political party but she was someone I agreed with on more than I disagreed. Her name was Jo Cox, she was a British MP.

A week later, today, the campaign she (and I, and my household) were heavily involved in lost the referendum and England and Wales has voted to leave the European Union. Given that Scotland and Northern Ireland both voted strongly to remain, this almost certainly leads to the breakup of both the UK and GB as well.

I'm in shock, I have no idea how to react or what to say, how to explain this to the kid or even react when I go into town and see the inevitable people cheering the result without having comprehended the consequences. There's a good chance the world economy may nosedive as a result of this.

So, if I'm a little distracted, angry or lose my temper at someone on here who really doesn't deserve it, apologies in advance. I'm scared, not for myself, I'll be fine, but for friends, family and similar who will actually suffer due to this.

If anyone knows of a good way to cheer me up, I'm really all ears.

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 24, 2016 8:16 am 
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I'm very sad to see the UK leave the EU, and I feel sorry for you and the rest of the 48,1% who voted to stay. :(

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 24, 2016 12:40 pm 
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Well, it certainly tells of the magnitude of the event if its shockwaves reach the forum of an open source game (even if "just" the off topic subforum).

I wish I could say something to cheer you up, I really do, but I honestly don't know how, because I expect the long term consequences and repercussions not to be very pretty (to put it mildly). But then, I've to admit I've never been a very optimistic person, so I probably better stop here, or I'll end up in an unpleasant rant. If I can't cheer you up, I should at least refrain from depressing you even more... ;)

So instead all I'm going to say is: as depressing and frustrating as things might look sometimes, the sun is going to rise again tomorrow, and there will always be another morning, another day. Maybe clichéd, but still true.


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 24, 2016 1:11 pm 
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If you're into timing the stock market, now's a great time to buy? Cache in on that panic selling to get a bonus 5-10% for your money?


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 24, 2016 4:36 pm 
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Well... if the same referendum happens in France, I'm pretty sure people would vote to leave the EU aswell (and a lot more than 52%, like in UK).

Why?

Simply because, nowadays, EU is simply a bureaucratic/technocratic mess, full of infiltrated lobbyists.

- In France, we fought for years to ban the neonicotinoids (mainly from Monsanto and Bayer), very dangerous pesticides, which have been proven to be the cause of the pollinating insects high mortality, based on many independant NGOs studies.

Finally, a law is voted a few months ago, but the following days, a partial moratorium is voted by the EU commission, which overrides the french law (but yesterday, the french assembly voted a full ban for 2020 -formerly 2018-, until the EU commission lobbyists strikes back...)

Same story for the Glyphosate.

- The refugee problem was very badly handled, mainly by Merkel's fault.

Yes, Germany helps a lot of refugees, but it's little bit hypocrite. Germany needs qualified workers and manpower, so Germany takes what Germany needs, and force the other countries to take what isn't needed.

In France, the economical situation is critical (to say the least), so we can't afford to take hundreds of thousands refugees, like in Germany.

Generally speaking, the Germany behavior, in many areas, is lived like a "diktat", in many european countries.

- In 2005, french people voted "No" to the european constitution, to warn our politicians and the EU, that something goes wrong in Europe. What happened? They buried the referendum result, and a few months later, they voted the Treaty of Lisbon (without consulting again the people), which was exactly the same text. What a democracy.

- The European Commission is anti-democratic and has all the powers (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_ ... Legitimacy). People has nothing to say about it. It's simply a matter of lobbying, conflicts of interests, and undoubtly corruption.

Like a french writer said:

"La dictature, c'est "Ferme ta gueule!", la démocratie, c'est "Cause toujours!"

which can be translated:

"Dictatorship is "Shut up!", democracy is "Talk all you want!"

Fits well with the EU.


PS: the economical "chaos" foretold by "specialists", is simply to scare people. In 2003, Sweden didn't want the Euro currency , and it was the same bullshit. Sweden is still fine. Norway and Switzerland, who are not members, are fine aswell.

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Last edited by Ouaz on Fri Jun 24, 2016 4:55 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 24, 2016 4:44 pm 
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Dear Mat,

it is my strong belief, that nothing happens quite randomly. All what happens, has a chance in it to learn something.

What could ist be? Not to be arragont? Not to here on populists? To think of instead of following emotions? They are the majority, so it's there chance to learn something, even if it migth be the hard way.

And you? There must be a chance to learn something for you too. What is it? Not to become desperate? To search for the meaning of live? Something quite different? Find it, find the chance in it, and you will become happy again und than you will know, what to tell your kids.

Best Regards and sorry for my bad english


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 25, 2016 2:44 am 
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The EU is very similar to communism, democracy and capitalism - it is absolutely ideal in theory, but never works as it should in reality. Many of the things that it brought us are great for the citizens (Schengen, Euro currency, etc.), but were spoiled by the politicians on almost all levels:(

I do hope that the Brixit will be the bucket of cold water that EU needs to wake up and get back on track. Either EU should get its act together, or fall apart and reform into something better, as long it does not fall into ages of chaos again.

As someone wrote yesterday - Putin is chilling his champagne.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 29, 2016 12:07 pm 
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Giving the people the right to vote on such delicate decisions shows how fundamentally flawed democracy is:
- How can you guarantee that those people weren't victim to mass-manipulation? Which is getting more & more easier under technological development. Observe how much blatant disinformation were spread from the "vote leave" campaign. Fearmongering, rhetorism, no-hard-evidence-simple-speculative-talk etc.
It's good that here in Germany politicans do make these calls, not everyday-joe-idiots.

Nevertheless, I don't think we should overdramatize the situation. The damage is so much greater for Britain than for the EU. Perhaps Scottland & North Ireland will return. England & Wales will have to accept a far less beneficial framework of tradedeals than before, esp. since they won't accept Schengen agreement.

You cannot compare the situation of Norway or even Switzerland to England at all. Both these countries stayed away from the EU because they were/are extremely rich on their own, for reason that are intrinsically found in their natural resources & some political decisions made in the past. England can't artificially recreate that.

Quote:
- The refugee problem was very badly handled, mainly by Merkel's fault.

Yes, Germany helps a lot of refugees, but it's little bit hypocrite. Germany needs qualified workers and manpower, so Germany takes what Germany needs, and force the other countries to take what isn't needed.

In France, the economical situation is critical (to say the least), so we can't afford to take hundreds of thousands refugees, like in Germany.

Generally speaking, the Germany behavior, in many areas, is lived like a "diktat", in many european countries.


- France is one of the richest countries in the world. If you can't help people that are fleeing from war I call you out for being greedy, egocentrical and esp. the French seem to be unable to take their own share of responsibility: It's been YOU who collaborated with the USA to take down Ghaddafi which posed as a huge destabilizing factor to the Middle East + the rise of ISIL. In order to project french economical interests into Libia & to protect the petrodollar.

- To say we help refugees to gain cheap workers is complete bullshit. If there were any qualified Syrians which our industry needs they can - and always could - get easily conventional access to living in Germany. All you need to have is to arrange for a job in advance, the rest is mere paperwork.
The truth of the matter is that AS GOOD AS NONE of the refugees can speak german, are qualified or have proper education. They will live for free on our cost, for years or decades, and even if they get a job even at minimum wage (8€50 per hour) it's so much better than the 25€ per week that childlabourer get in Turkey. Not to mention we have a huge crowd of own unemployed people as well.

- The refugee problem became only a problem when individual EU memberstates became greedy and failed to help each other, esp. those from the East. Sometimes I wonder if we are really better off with them as members? Esp. Germany is pumping so much funds into the EU in order to bring them up after the Russians left nothing but a wasteland behind - and this is the major reason why Germany has a leading role into the EU. The other reason is that at least our politicans have a working vision of the future - the demographic change hurts out societies way too bad, it's getting to old. China & India will become omnipotent if we don't team up together & get more powerful.


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