Totally fresh perspective

Discussion about the project in general, organization, website, or any other details that aren't directly about the game.
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IpityU
Space Krill
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Joined: Sat Oct 25, 2008 2:58 pm

Totally fresh perspective

#1 Post by IpityU »

I've downloaded your game and there looks to be much potential. I know it is in the rough stages, so I'll post more of what I would hope for than any criticism or suggestions for the current build.

Tech:
I love the tech tree, but I find it a bit confusing. I think it'd be more intuitive if it were more compartmentalized. IE; computer tech could improve weapons accuracy/damage, but not unlock additional weapon research... If there is too much tech-drift it becomes more difficult for new players to grasp the tech tree flow - leading to player-drift.... (Also, in the descriptions indicate exactly the benefit of the research - the point damage, production or whatever)
I also think that MOO1 had the right idea about tech - using sliders to distribute research points across multiple research projects AND compounding the research points already allocated. In fact, in addition to compounding, it'd be nice if 'bonus' points were credited when conducting multi-platform research. That would do much to encourage broad strategy research rather than 'teching up' only one branch... (but not so much as to make the sliders useless)
Additionally - I liked MOO1's gradual increases on tech, like shields, rather than MOO2s more pronounced steps. I liked that one could decided to make a small increase in shield improvements quickly, or invest in skipping a few levels for a huge improvement that might take a bit longer, but render opponent tech (autolasers!) obsolete... if you lived that long...

Colony Management;
I like the focus ability and the build que, but the relationship between manufacturing, mining, farming, trade, and research is unclear... If I build a colony with only research buildings, do I need to focus it also? that seems redundant. How MUCH of each trait will structures create? How much will each build project consume? How can I track that? It may be there to see already, but if so it is not intuitive.

Space Combat;
Again, MOO1 dominated this with obstacles that created a dynamic battleground. Asteroid fields which 'ate' missiles, shields that didn't function in nebulae, broad non-weapon technologies like warp dissapators, black hole generators, teleporters, tractor beams, ion field generators, cloak, etc. rather than just missile/laser shields/ecm. It'd be great if there were additional opportunities to improvise and enhance tactics; space anomalies, warp sinks, gravity wells, scanner interference, debris fields, etc.

One weakness of all TBS strategy/combat games I've noticed is that often the battle is decided simply by who goes first. IG2 tried to resolve this with real-time space combat, but their execution was flawed. I think that XCOM Apocalypse had it figured out with semi-real time combat: Opponents would give instructions to their units, press the turn button, then their units would execute the instructions simultaneously for a few seconds, then the turn would end and the next turns instructions would begin.

Music; OK, it isn't THAT big of a deal, but I've always wished I could play a game and select from the games music (maybe even multiple tracks) or my own. Maybe even enjoy my itunes play list while still experiencing the games sound effects / bulletins.

Other;

The only other suggestion I have would be a timer which would limit a persons turn duration. This would keep the gameflow moving and prevent players from walking away to ruin other peoples games. (Or falling asleep - as one common player in MOO2 used to do) If players were to decide pre-game how long the timer was set for, or could even change it mid-game by vote, that would allow those who want to micro-manage the ability to play others willing to do the same, while those who don't micro would be able to avoid getting sucked unwillingly into that time-sink.

Ultimately - a game's success stands on how easy it is to start playing. A steep learning curve leads to games like Administrator of Orion (MOO3). Broad appeal is made with a game simple enough to enjoy 'out of the box' yet deep enough to be able to continue to dig, develop and uncover new strategies and features.

Good luck with the game development. I look forward to getting my arse kicked on my first online adventure...

thawn
Space Krill
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Joined: Wed May 13, 2009 9:43 pm

Re: Totally fresh perspective

#2 Post by thawn »

I am also new to FreeOrion and would like to second everything said above.

Especially including the big Thank You!

I also have one suggestion to add:
In your roadmap balancing/finishing is at the very end. However, you might be able collect a much bigger crowd of testers and contibuters once the game is actually playable. Therefore I would suggest individual balancing/playability steps in-between versions. Especially version 0.3x basically having all the economy in it could actually be a lot of fun already if it were properly balanced. The balancing work would not be in vain, since all the later parts can be balanced independently.

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utilae
Cosmic Dragon
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Joined: Fri Jun 27, 2003 12:37 am
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Re: Totally fresh perspective

#3 Post by utilae »

IpityU wrote: I love the tech tree, but I find it a bit confusing. I think it'd be more intuitive if it were more compartmentalized. IE; computer tech could improve weapons accuracy/damage, but not unlock additional weapon research... If there is too much tech-drift it becomes more difficult for new players to grasp the tech tree flow - leading to player-drift.... (Also, in the descriptions indicate exactly the benefit of the research - the point damage, production or whatever)
I agree. I do not like the way it is a web. Galciv 2 is like that. And it gets confusing. Moo2 had the right idea, with categories showing only a limited amount of techs at a time. In Galciv the amount of techs shown in the main list becomes too great.
IpityU wrote: I also think that MOO1 had the right idea about tech - using sliders to distribute research points across multiple research projects AND compounding the research points already allocated. In fact, in addition to compounding, it'd be nice if 'bonus' points were credited when conducting multi-platform research. That would do much to encourage broad strategy research rather than 'teching up' only one branch... (but not so much as to make the sliders useless)
No, I disagree with the idea of sliders. I think the player feels more involved with playing the game if they are making a choice, which means choosing to research THIS TECH next, then THIS TECH AFTER. Moo2 accomplished this. When you focus on research and can forget about it, you care less. You look later and see, hmm oh I got like 10 new techs. Meh. =)
IpityU wrote: Space Combat;
One weakness of all TBS strategy/combat games I've noticed is that often the battle is decided simply by who goes first. IG2 tried to resolve this with real-time space combat, but their execution was flawed. I think that XCOM Apocalypse had it figured out with semi-real time combat: Opponents would give instructions to their units, press the turn button, then their units would execute the instructions simultaneously for a few seconds, then the turn would end and the next turns instructions would begin.
Moo2 with the updated 1.31 patch introduced initiative which seems to solve that problem well. But I think a semi real time or phase time systems would be superior.

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Geoff the Medio
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Re: Totally fresh perspective

#4 Post by Geoff the Medio »

IpityU wrote:I love the tech tree, but I find it a bit confusing. I think it'd be more intuitive if it were more compartmentalized. IE; computer tech could improve weapons accuracy/damage, but not unlock additional weapon research...
There actually is a similar sort of compartmentalization: Techs are grouped into theories, applications and refinements. Theories only have other theories as prerequisites, and applications have only theories or applications. Refinements have at least one application prerequisite. See below for more details on what each of the three are for.
Also, in the descriptions indicate exactly the benefit of the research - the point damage, production or whatever
This is already done. You may not have noticed because many techs are theories, which don't direclty do anything, and so have no benefits to indicate, besides what they unlock.
I also think that MOO1 had the right idea about tech - using sliders to distribute research points across multiple research projects AND compounding the research points already allocated.
That's not how FreeOrion research works, and we're not going to completely change it at this stage. We could add a "sort" function to reorder (and thereby reprioritize) the player's tech queue to put all of a certain category of tech at the top (and thus funded first) of the queue, though.
Additionally - I liked MOO1's gradual increases on tech, like shields, rather than MOO2s more pronounced steps. I liked that one could decided to make a small increase in shield improvements quickly, or invest in skipping a few levels for a huge improvement that might take a bit longer, but render opponent tech (autolasers!) obsolete... if you lived that long...
This is the idea of refinements and applications and theories. You can spend a lot of research effort getting a theory which doesn't give you anything directly, but which unlocks later, and presumably better, applications, or you can research the applications you have access to now to get a more immediate benefit. You can also invest more in your already-unlocked stuff by researching refinements to them, which contribute nothing to unlocking higher-tier content.
I like the focus ability and the build que, but the relationship between manufacturing, mining, farming, trade, and research is unclear... If I build a colony with only research buildings, do I need to focus it also? that seems redundant. How MUCH of each trait will structures create? How much will each build project consume? How can I track that? It may be there to see already, but if so it is not intuitive.
You seem to be thinking of buildings like they worked in MOO2, which is not how they work in FreeOrion. You wouldn't build a colony with research buildings to make a good research colony... You'd just set a colony to research focus, and then it'd be a research colony. You might build a few research-boosting buildings around your empire, but they don't necessarily need to be on a particular planet for that planet to get their benefit. There would probably also be reserach-boosting techs you could research, which would affect your whole empire.

The benefits of a tech or building are from their effects. These are explained in the descriptions of the buidlings, and of the techs that have such effects. The effect descriptions are currently below the fluff / story style descriptions, and I'm thinking they should be moved to the top to be more obvious when present. There are also big indicators at the top of a tech description in the reserach screen when a tech is selected that indicates roughly what the tech does... Nothing for theories, unlocks building for relevant applications, or boosts research or farming as applicable. Apparently people don't notice these, though.
I think that XCOM Apocalypse had it figured out with semi-real time combat: Opponents would give instructions to their units, press the turn button, then their units would execute the instructions simultaneously for a few seconds, then the turn would end and the next turns instructions would begin.
That's how combat is planned for FreeOrion.
Music; OK, it isn't THAT big of a deal, but I've always wished I could play a game and select from the games music (maybe even multiple tracks) or my own. Maybe even enjoy my itunes play list while still experiencing the games sound effects / bulletins.
There's an option in the options menu already to set the music. There's only one music file sent with the game, though. Alternatively, it's just a .ogg file that can be played in any decent music player. Feel free to copy it elsewhere on your system and put it in a playlist and change it up as desired.

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