Right Click Function: Measure Distance

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Bigjoe5
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Right Click Function: Measure Distance

#1 Post by Bigjoe5 »

For conditions which affect objects within a certain number of uus, it would be extremely useful for players to measure the distance between objects precisely, without having to estimate based on the scale. This is also useful for determining the ETA of a not yet built ship with a different speed than existing ships. It always irritated me in MoO2 when I wasn't sure if researching a certain engine tech would allow me to get to my destination in a certain number of turns, or a fuel tech could get me to a certain star system.

This could be an addition to the right click menu. The player right-clicks an object, selects "Measure Distance", then mouses over various targets in the UI. A blinking white line is displayed between the two objects, and above the object being moused over, the distance in uus is displayed. To stop measuring distances, the player would just click anywhere on the screen.

Alternatively, there could be a "Measure Distance" button somewhere on the side of the screen, possibly in with the information overlay selectors. The player selects it, and clicks on two objects. The distance is displayed in a similar fashion as above. Clicking on another two objects would measure the distance between those two objects and get rid of the display for the previous two. Clicking elsewhere on the screen would remove the display of the previously measured distance, but allow the player to continue measuring distances. Clicking on the "Measure Distance" button again would remove any distance display and cease the functionality of clicking on objects to measure distances.

I prefer the first implementation personally, but either way, it would be a very useful function.
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Geoff the Medio
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Re: Right Click Function: Measure Distance

#2 Post by Geoff the Medio »

A right-click menu for this would be awkward, since right-clicking on the map is presently used to order fleets to move or close the fleets window. As such, you'd need these right click measure distance commands on the ship or fleet panels or planet panels, rather than on the galaxy map system or fleet icons, where you'd actually view the results, but which currently have no right click menus due to the other use of right-click in that space.

A survey distance button could probably be added.

For building conditions, there should probably be something shown in the UI when a building type is selected that shows what systems or objects would be within range of the building if built at the selected planet. This could incorporate starlane jumps, direct distance and other conditions and highlight the potentially affected systems, and perhaps planets and ships and fleets.

Note that you can tell how far a fleet moves in one turn, and can see its positions after every turn on its move path, so could figure out the distance along a fleet's plotted path from that, and work back to get the time it would take a fleet moving at a different speed. This is actually more useful for fleet movement than a direct distance measure, since fleets have to follow starlanes that don't go in a straight line between nonadjacent systems.

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Bigjoe5
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Re: Right Click Function: Measure Distance

#3 Post by Bigjoe5 »

Geoff the Medio wrote:A right-click menu for this would be awkward, since right-clicking on the map is presently used to order fleets to move or close the fleets window. As such, you'd need these right click measure distance commands on the ship or fleet panels or planet panels, rather than on the galaxy map system or fleet icons, where you'd actually view the results, but which currently have no right click menus due to the other use of right-click in that space.
This is a temporary situation is it not? You did say you wanted to remove the right click functionality of fleet movement. If that were the case, objects on the galaxy map could be given right-click menus. Furthermore, the right click is only in use on the galaxy map when ordering fleets at the moment, so it would be perfectly reasonable to use right click menus for stars and other objects, since there will by no means be a fleet selected at all times. Similarly, if fleet orders are given left-click functionality, does that mean we shouldn't use left-click to select star systems and other objects on the galaxy map?
For building conditions, there should probably be something shown in the UI when a building type is selected that shows what systems or objects would be within range of the building if built at the selected planet. This could incorporate starlane jumps, direct distance and other conditions and highlight the potentially affected systems, and perhaps planets and ships and fleets.
That would also be useful.
Note that you can tell how far a fleet moves in one turn, and can see its positions after every turn on its move path, so could figure out the distance along a fleet's plotted path from that, and work back to get the time it would take a fleet moving at a different speed. This is actually more useful for fleet movement than a direct distance measure, since fleets have to follow starlanes that don't go in a straight line between nonadjacent systems.
Note also that you could measure the distance between multiple stars and add the distances, which is far less complicated and precise than what you suggest (since ships would arrive at the same system on the same turn even if they were within a range of distances the previous turn). Furthermore, multiple waypoint measurements could be commanded by right clicking consecutive stars until you reached your final destination, indicated by a left click (a similar approach could be used for ordering fleets).
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Geoff the Medio
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Re: Right Click Function: Measure Distance

#4 Post by Geoff the Medio »

Bigjoe5 wrote:
Geoff the Medio wrote:A right-click menu for this would be awkward, since right-clicking on the map is presently used to order fleets to move or close the fleets window. As such, you'd need these right click measure distance commands on the ship or fleet panels or planet panels, rather than on the galaxy map system or fleet icons, where you'd actually view the results, but which currently have no right click menus due to the other use of right-click in that space.
This is a temporary situation is it not? You did say you wanted to remove the right click functionality of fleet movement.
I have said that, and have wanted to, but I'm not sure if there's a good alternative way to order fleets about without requiring a lot of extra clicks. Also, it'd be good to have the means to order fleets around be similar between the galaxy map and combat map. Most RTSes use right-click to order move and left click to select units, and this works well, so people will probably expect FreeOrion to work that way and I don't see a reason not to have it do so.
Furthermore, the right click is only in use on the galaxy map when ordering fleets at the moment, so it would be perfectly reasonable to use right click menus for stars and other objects, since there will by no means be a fleet selected at all times.
Having right click sometimes open a pop up, and sometimes order fleets to move is complicated and I suspect it would be not obvious which would happen when... If we have right-click menus, they should probably always appear when right-clicking something, or never, if the right click sometimes does something else.
Similarly, if fleet orders are given left-click functionality, does that mean we shouldn't use left-click to select star systems and other objects on the galaxy map?
Using the left mouse button to order fleet moves doesn't mean the ordering would be done by simply left clicking. There could be a click-drag mechanism, for example...
Note that you can tell how far a fleet moves in one turn, and can see its positions after every turn on its move path, so could figure out the distance along a fleet's plotted path from that, and work back to get the time it would take a fleet moving at a different speed. This is actually more useful for fleet movement than a direct distance measure, since fleets have to follow starlanes that don't go in a straight line between nonadjacent systems.
Note also that you could measure the distance between multiple stars and add the distances, which is far less complicated and precise than what you suggest (since ships would arrive at the same system on the same turn even if they were within a range of distances the previous turn).
Measuring multiple distances between stars requires making several measurements and combining them, while measuring the distance with a fleet move line is just one measurement that already takes into account the lengths of the various jumps along the path. There could also be a "path length" (distance) indicator shown when ordering fleet moves.
Furthermore, multiple waypoint measurements could be commanded by right clicking consecutive stars until you reached your final destination, indicated by a left click (a similar approach could be used for ordering fleets).
Alternatives are holding a keyboard button to give multiple waypoint move orders, similar to RTSes, or dragging the path to add waypoints like in Google maps.

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Re: Right Click Function: Measure Distance

#5 Post by Bigjoe5 »

Geoff the Medio wrote:
Similarly, if fleet orders are given left-click functionality, does that mean we shouldn't use left-click to select star systems and other objects on the galaxy map?
Using the left mouse button to order fleet moves doesn't mean the ordering would be done by simply left clicking. There could be a click-drag mechanism, for example...
I'd like to avoid click-drag mechanisms for fleet movement. It sounds kind of clunky and awkward.
Measuring multiple distances between stars requires making several measurements and combining them, while measuring the distance with a fleet move line is just one measurement that already takes into account the lengths of the various jumps along the path. There could also be a "path length" (distance) indicator shown when ordering fleet moves.
The distance indicator for fleet movements would be ideal, since there's still a small degree of uncertainty when measuring path distances based on ETA. The distance indicator is still necessary for this purpose though, since there won't always be a fleet handy with which to measure.
Furthermore, multiple waypoint measurements could be commanded by right clicking consecutive stars until you reached your final destination, indicated by a left click (a similar approach could be used for ordering fleets).
Alternatives are holding a keyboard button to give multiple waypoint move orders, similar to RTSes, or dragging the path to add waypoints like in Google maps.
Again, dragging would be a pain, especially for long paths. The keyboard button would work, but I'm dubious about tying such a vital mechanism to the keyboard. Some players might find that inconvenient (I for one, occasionally eat or drink while playing, and don't have a free hand for the keyboard). IMO, the keyboard should be supplementary, but not necessary for playing the game, much like MoO2, where there were many keyboard shortcuts, but nothing that couldn't be done with just the mouse.
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Geoff the Medio
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Re: Right Click Function: Measure Distance

#6 Post by Geoff the Medio »

Bigjoe5 wrote:I'd like to avoid click-drag mechanisms for fleet movement. It sounds kind of clunky and awkward.
Hence "I'm not sure if there's a good alternative way to order fleets about without requiring a lot of extra clicks." One bad idea doesn't prove there isn't a good one, but I don't know of what good one is available to replace right-click to order fleet moves.
Again, dragging would be a pain, especially for long paths.
Dragging to add waypoints to an existing path wouldn't be as much of a bother as dragging to create new paths. The path would already exist, so there'd be something in the UI to drag... It works quite well on google maps, for example, but the initial start and destination are specified with a separate mechanism (searching by name text). It's easy to add more waypoints in your path by grabbing the path line and pulling it to a new location.
The keyboard button would work, but I'm dubious about tying such a vital mechanism to the keyboard. Some players might find that inconvenient (I for one, occasionally eat or drink while playing, and don't have a free hand for the keyboard). IMO, the keyboard should be supplementary, but not necessary for playing the game, much like MoO2, where there were many keyboard shortcuts, but nothing that couldn't be done with just the mouse.
The whole multiple waypoints system is itself supplementary, really. You could just order your fleets to move to each destination directly, rather than bothering with intermediate waypoints.

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Re: Right Click Function: Measure Distance

#7 Post by Bigjoe5 »

Geoff the Medio wrote:[The whole multiple waypoints system is itself supplementary, really. You could just order your fleets to move to each destination directly, rather than bothering with intermediate waypoints.
That would require ordering the fleet to move to the system just beyond their current waypoint destination in order to get maximum speed from your ships. Otherwise, there's speed wasted at the end of the turn when the fleet arrives at the waypoint; speed that could be used to get them to their final destination more quickly. Also, it would be impossible to salvage that speed in the case where the distance between two stars is less than the fleet's speed, since there would be no chance to command it to the next system in-transit.
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alleryn
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Re: Right Click Function: Measure Distance

#8 Post by alleryn »

Bigjoe5 wrote:It always irritated me in MoO2 when I wasn't sure if researching a certain engine tech would allow me to get to my destination in a certain number of turns, or a fuel tech could get me to a certain star system.
A little late, i suppose, but this function does exist in MoO2. It's bound to F9. It then switches the cursor to "From?", you click a star system, the cursor switches to "To?" and hovering over another star system displays the distance.

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Re: Right Click Function: Measure Distance

#9 Post by Vezzra »

alleryn wrote:A little late, i suppose...
Naaahhh... it's just been 8 or 9 years ago... :mrgreen:

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