FreeOrion

Forums for the FreeOrion project
It is currently Tue Dec 12, 2017 8:03 am

All times are UTC




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 5 posts ] 
Author Message
PostPosted: Sun Jun 18, 2017 9:14 pm 
Offline
Dyson Forest
User avatar

Joined: Mon Apr 10, 2017 4:25 pm
Posts: 241
Here it is an attempt (first one maybe, I found nothing on the forum) to give points to available species characteristics and bonus/malus for a custom species creation system.

For the available attributes I just checked what are the traits that any species can have. I may have missed some.
To assign points I assume humans can be considered as having 0 points in total, and then I try to weight how much (dis)advantage does bring any possible trait in terms of RP/PP output when the rest are all equal. For example, an species with great production (200%) may be expected to progress at twice the speed of an average species (again, assuming rest traits are equal). The rest of stimations are even more intuitive than that, so I expect noticeable deviations from what could be considered balanced.


Output group:

* Research:
- 75%: +10 points.
- 100%: 0 points.
- 150%: -10 points.
- 200%: -20 points.
- 300%: -30 points.

* Production:
- 75%: +15 points.
- 100%: 0 points.
- 150%: -15 points.
- 200% -25 points.
- 300%: -35 points.

* Population:
- 75%: +20 points.
- 100%: 0 points.
- 125%: -20 points.
- 150%: -40 points.

* Metabolism:
- Robotic/Organic/Lithic: 0 points.
- Phototrophic: -5 points (I would say -20 points on young galaxy, -5 points on mature and +10 on ancient, if costs would be tied to galaxy age, what would be possible if species is customised after galaxy characteristics have been set).
- Self-sustaining: -20 points.

Expansion group:

* Supply bonus:
- +0: +5 points.
- +1: 0 points.
- +2: -5 points.
- +3: -10 points.

* Environtment tolerance:
- Narrow (no adequate planets): +15 points.
- Broad (double poor planets): -5 points.

* Colonisation speed:
- +25%: +5 points
- -25%: -5 points

Military group:

* Pilots:
- -1: +10 points.
- +0: 0 points.
- +1: -5 points.
- +2: -10 points.
- +3: -20 points.

* Defensive troops:
- 50%: +5 points.
- 100%: 0 points.
- 150%: -5 points
- 200%: -10 points

* Offensive troops:
- 50%: +5 points.
- 100%: 0 points.
- 150%: -5 points
- 200%: -10 points

Others group:

* Detection range:
- -20: +5 points.
- +25: -2 points.
- +50: -5 points.
- +100: -10 points.

* Planetary stealth:
- -20: +2 points.
- +0: 0 points.
- +20: -2 points.
- +40: -5 points.
- +60: -10 points.

* Others
- Telepathy: -5 points.
- Xenophobic: +5 points.

Pending:

* Diplomacy.

* Influence.


My next step should be, I think, to calculate the points that has the playable species as for this initial sketch of point costs, find out if they appear as over- or underpowered as for the points, and this get a picture of how reasonable is the sketch (considering that some species are better than others, like Egassem). To be continued. But don't hesitate to give any kind of feedback.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 9:32 am 
Offline
Dyson Forest

Joined: Tue Sep 30, 2014 10:01 am
Posts: 213
Oberlus wrote:
Here it is an attempt (first one maybe, I found nothing on the forum) to give points to available species characteristics and bonus/malus for a custom species creation system.

Hi Oberlus. Just curious, what would be the point of such a system? The species are one of the things which are the easiest thing to adapt via scripting.

In the best world i think the following happens - one wants a special species and hits the forums and asks for that. With some help the person does the first personal adaption of freeorion. And maybe gets the taste to change some more :)

Also I think it is good that we have distinctive names for species so we know what others talk about.

Oberlus wrote:
My next step should be, I think, to calculate the points that has the playable species as for this initial sketch of point costs, find out if they appear as over- or underpowered as for the points, and this get a picture of how reasonable is the sketch (considering that some species are better than others, like Egassem). To be continued. But don't hesitate to give any kind of feedback.

I think someone did an overview of the species, but in a spreadsheet. Probably @MatGB knows.

_________________
Any code or patches in anything posted here is released under the CC and GPL licences in use for the FO project.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 10:01 am 
Offline
Dyson Forest
User avatar

Joined: Mon Apr 10, 2017 4:25 pm
Posts: 241
Ophiuchus wrote:
what would be the point of such a system? The species are one of the things which are the easiest thing to adapt via scripting.

In the best world i think the following happens - one wants a special species and hits the forums and asks for that. With some help the person does the first personal adaption of freeorion. And maybe gets the taste to change some more :)
Good points. However, I still think it would be a nice addition to the game:
- Manual adaptation of species (or anything else) via scripting will always be less user-friendly than using the game GUI, and will always impose a limitation to a certain share of the players.
- The point creation system would be aimed not only at allowing user customisation but also providing a way (guideline) to produce relatively balanced species (for same amount of points).
- Moreover, it would provide a way to measure the amount of extra difficulty (or ease) of the game due to player's species' handicap (or advantage), and would work well with the replacement of victory conditions by achievements.

Quote:
it is good that we have distinctive names for species so we know what others talk about.
That is a "problem" regardless you make the adaptation/customisation via scripting or a window in the game. But you could always list the relevant characteristics.

Thanks for the feedback :)

PS: also, adapting via script mean that the modified species can also appear as an AI adversary. If your aim is to make game harder (or easier) some games won't be like that if your opponents have the same traits as you.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 4:59 pm 
Offline
Space Squid

Joined: Tue May 16, 2017 3:42 am
Posts: 58
Ophiuchus wrote:
Hi Oberlus. Just curious, what would be the point of such a system?

I think it'd be really great for competitive multiplayer games, especially if you could disable the species specs/pedia pages. Just like old Stars!


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Nov 23, 2017 3:28 pm 
Offline
Space Squid
User avatar

Joined: Sun Nov 19, 2017 6:32 pm
Posts: 82
I like this idea for, if nothing else, as you said:
Quote:
providing a way (guideline) to produce relatively balanced species (for same amount of points).


I'd like to pursue this further, but one quick observation while i'm thinking of it:
Offensive Troops are much more useful than Defensive Troops and should have much greater points associated with it.

Not only are offensive troops used to take natives and aid in expansion (this is probably the most significant part, if natives are active in the galaxy), but also the penalty associated to defensive troops only typically affects a small fraction of your actual garrison on a planet, much of that being provided by the flat bonuses from Planetary Bunker and Planetary Fortification Network. I.e. if one species has 150% offense troops, while the other has 150% defense troops, the number of troop carriers that need to be built to take the planet does not remain constant, it decreases, since the offensive player gets the full 150% bonus to his number of troops, while the defensive player has that 150% only modify a portion of the defenders.

I suppose defensive troops does have the small advantage that you really need only one species in your empire to be building troop carriers, whereas defense will always have some utility, but i feel that this is, in general, very much outweighed by the above considerations. Perhaps the offensive malus is not as much worse than the defensive malus as the offensive bonus is better than the defensive bonus. I would say something like

* Defensive troops:
- 50%: +5 points.
- 100%: 0 points.
- 150%: -5 points
- 200%: -10 points

* Offensive troops:
- 50%: +7 points.
- 100%: 0 points.
- 150%: -9 points
- 200%: -20 points


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 5 posts ] 

All times are UTC


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group