Nest eradication

For what's not in 'Top Priority Game Design'. Post your ideas, visions, suggestions for the game, rules, modifications, etc.

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LGM-Doyle
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Re: Nest eradication

#31 Post by LGM-Doyle »

We should recognize that Tualha has already done the work, and submitted a PR implementing 1. While 3. or 2. may be preferable, unless someone raises an objection that we agree is valid, then we should honor the work and use 1., until someone is motivated enough to implement 3. or 2. This is intended as a stop-gap, not a final solution.

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Vezzra
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Re: Nest eradication

#32 Post by Vezzra »

LGM-Doyle wrote:unless someone raises an objection that we agree is valid
Well, my major gripe with that approach is that the tech+building has practically only a micromanagement purpose. Meaning, a player would invest RP and PP just to avoid the (minor) annoyance of having to scrap unwanted domesticated monsters they get every few turns. While still tolerable as a stop-gap solution, if another, equally simple stop-gap solution offers a better approach I'd be inclined to go with the latter.

But I'm not adamant about this. If others share your sentiment (to just adopt the PR that has already been put up to honor the work that went into it), I can live with that. ;)

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Oberlus
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Re: Nest eradication

#33 Post by Oberlus »

I would say 3 is the way to go, but that it won't harm to have in use Tualha's patch until 3 is implemented, and then remove Tualha's.

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Tualha
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Re: Nest eradication

#34 Post by Tualha »

Nice of people to speak up in favor of my developed patch, but I’m not married to it. I was just throwing it out there. I like Vezzra’s idea of decoupling organic hulls from monster ranching, perhaps in combination with my idea of a common ancestor theoretical tech dealing with all space life. That all seems fairly simple to accomplish.

We could keep the nest eradicator (at reduced cost) as part of the monster line: first, as another type of terraforming that lets you get rid of unwanted nests while keeping others, e.g. Oberlus liking krakens but not snowflakes; second, to remind people that there is a monster line and encourage development of same. And we have plenty of ideas for development in this thread alone.

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labgnome
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Re: Nest eradication

#35 Post by labgnome »

Space Monster ranching does need love.
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Atreides
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Re: Nest eradication

#36 Post by Atreides »

Idea: swap eradicator and tamer tech's.

That way you are forced to make a choice. If you need to stop the beasts at any cost you eradicate them. But if you can hold on, you can progress to taming them instead after learning the pereq destruction.

This makes the eradicator tech useful to those of us who would never use it. (Waste a potential tamed monster? NEVER!) Also addresses the concern that this tech exists only for convenience.

Fluffwise works wonderfully too: Easier to destroy than to tame. Need to learn how to slay them before you can learn how to tame them.

Balancewise I'd suggest keeping taming at same cost but inserting destruction 2/3 or 1/2 way between. It should be a cheap tech. After all it gains you nothing much.

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Oberlus
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Re: Nest eradication

#37 Post by Oberlus »

I agree, and it's easy to implement.

wobbly
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Re: Nest eradication

#38 Post by wobbly »

Yeah sounds reasonable to me too. So an outpost with a nest and no domesticated monsters would still spawn wild right?

Simplest swap is to make nest eradication tech the same RP cost, turn time and tech position of current domesticated monster tech and domesticated monster the cost and position of current nest eradication.

Alternatively costs and positions could move a bit if people prefer?

wobbly
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Re: Nest eradication

#39 Post by wobbly »

As a note, one thing I like is that this is also a simple solution as to how to balance domesticated monsters in MP (certainly simpler then stuff I was going to try) and another is its in a section of the research tree that sees less traffic and could do with some love.

So I'm especially curious whether people think that's about the right game stage for domesticated monsters, too early, or too late.

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Oberlus
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Re: Nest eradication

#40 Post by Oberlus »

I think the swapping is good enough, and maybe add some extra RP cost later if we find it too easy to get to tamed monsters.

Agree with non-domesticated, owned nests to keep spawning wild monsters. Rush the tech if you need it!

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LienRag
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Re: Nest eradication

#41 Post by LienRag »

Nice idea indeed.
Huge balance change, though.
Snowflakes will be entirely useless then.
Not sure what would be the right balance, actually.

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Krikkitone
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Re: Nest eradication

#42 Post by Krikkitone »

As for balancing Snowflakes a perhaps they could have a building that becomes available with eradication.

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Oberlus
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Re: Nest eradication

#43 Post by Oberlus »

Can anyone explain to me what's the problem with snowflakes?

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Re: Nest eradication

#44 Post by Ophiuchus »

Oberlus wrote: Sun Oct 01, 2023 7:31 pm Can anyone explain to me what's the problem with snowflakes?
I think the use domesticated snowflakes have is detection and refuel, that gets much more useless if one gets late access.
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Oberlus
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Re: Nest eradication

#45 Post by Oberlus »

Ah, thank you.

Yes, Mega-Fauna Ecology tech is absurdly overloaded of prerequisites, and it's itself quite expensive, only to get the nest eradicator...

For the changes discussed here I think this would make much more sense:

Mega-Fauna Ecology (takes the place of Domesticated Mega-Fauna as an early tech):
- Does nothing.
- Unlocked by Planetary Ecology tech.
- Unlocks Organic Hull tech, Domesticated Mega-Fauna tech and Nest Eradicator building.
- 18 RP and 3 turns.

Domesticated Mega-Fauna (takes the place of Mega-Fauna Ecology, but not so late tech)
- Allows owned nests to spawn tamed monsters.
- Unlocked by Mega-Fauna Ecology tech.
- Unlocks nothing.
- 90 RP and 6 turns.

Objections?

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