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PostPosted: Sun Nov 26, 2017 4:06 am 
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I feel like i read a topic on this some time ago but i can't seem to find it, so not sure if this has been brought up before.

Often it's desirable to shift focus globally from industry to research or vice versa. Also shifting focus for a species at a time can be useful.

Consideration of specials, or the presence of gas giants or asteroids is often a major factor as well.

The objects window has been enhanced since i last played with any frequency and makes these shifts much easier, but there is still room for improvement here in an effort to reduce micromanagement.


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 26, 2017 10:41 am 
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You mean something that allows you to e.g. set all colonies with a certain special to a certain focus? Or are you thinking about some kind of "global focus" that modifies the planetary ones, maybe affecting only a subset of your colonies (which meet a certain filter/scope condition)?

Aside from that the objects window certainly has much room for improvement, no question.


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 26, 2017 4:37 pm 
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Vezzra wrote:
You mean something that allows you to e.g. set all colonies with a certain special to a certain focus? Or are you thinking about some kind of "global focus" that modifies the planetary ones, maybe affecting only a subset of your colonies (which meet a certain filter/scope condition)?

Aside from that the objects window certainly has much room for improvement, no question.

I didn't have anything too specific in mind yet. I was thinking of an interface with a few different options:
  • Set all planets to <focus_type>
  • Set all planets of [dropdown menu:species] to <focus_type>
  • And then maybe some way to handle systems with certain specials or which contain gas giants and/or asteroids. Possibly a separate dialog/panel, accessible via the same interface that provides the other focus option but as an advanced setting, where the player tick or untick boxes. There could be one for gas giants, one for asteroids, one for specials which boost production based on population, and one for specials which boost production based on population. Something like that, although this part could probably be streamlined. I'm not sure if this description makes complete sense, but hopefully it conveys the gist.

Some/all could be incorporated into the Objects window, or perhaps a new "Empire" window somwhere down the road when/if that would make sense to have.


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 26, 2017 4:43 pm 
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alleryn wrote:
Some/all could be incorporated into the Objects window...
Some already has been...


Attachments:
File comment: Setting Focus in the Objects list
Objects_Set_Focus.png
Objects_Set_Focus.png [ 136.81 KiB | Viewed 126 times ]
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 26, 2017 5:15 pm 
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Geoff the Medio wrote:
Some already has been...

I'm aware of that functionality, but unless i'm missing something, that requires you to manually select (ctrl+click, or sort and shift+click) the planets.

It doesn't directly address any of the features i was suggesting. Sort and shift click makes it pretty easy to select groups of planets by species or for your entire empire, but it could be easier -- shifting focus for the empire or by species group is, i presume, quite a common operation for most all players. I see no reason why empire-wide shift should need to be an operation requiring more than 2 or 3 mouse clicks, but maybe i'm overestimating how often the typical player does this and, with that, how simple the interface ought to be for such an operation.


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 26, 2017 5:43 pm 
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alleryn wrote:
shifting focus for the empire or by species group is, i presume, quite a common operation for most all players.
I can see where setting the focus for all colonies with a certain species could be useful in some situations, but I wouldn't call even that "quite common". I've done that on occasion... but rarely enough that the object window has been sufficiently comfortable for this.

I've never ever felt the need to set the focus for all colonies of my empire.


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 26, 2017 6:18 pm 
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alleryn wrote:
I see no reason why empire-wide shift should need to be an operation requiring more than 2 or 3 mouse clicks, but maybe i'm overestimating how often the typical player does this and, with that, how simple the interface ought to be for such an operation.
Setting the focus on just a single planet, if it's already visible on the sidepanel, takes 2 clicks. I think your expectations of 2-3 clicks for a specific selective multi-target order are a bit unrealistic.


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 26, 2017 7:05 pm 
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Geoff the Medio wrote:
I think your expectations of 2-3 clicks for a specific selective multi-target order are a bit unrealistic.

Fair enough, i'm imagining one click to the interface (if it's not on the main screen) and then the 2 clicks you're describing.

Shifting my focus empire-wide is something i often do 3-5 times in the first 50-100 turns (which is usually around the time i decide i've 'won' in my vs. AI games). I was imagining other people did this too, but it sounds like i'm just wrong about that.

I'm willing to let it rest. The objects window does a sufficiently good job, if it's my peculiarity in doing this so often, rather than a universally common practice.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 28, 2017 8:27 pm 
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Mass focus change can be done through Objects relatively easily: use shift+click to grab a large selection, or ctrl+click to select individual planets, then right click/set focus. I find it better to have no systems open, especially not a system being changed.

And my browser didn't tell me there were replies, so editing in before post: two checko boxes would be good for Objects, 1: just show my stuff, so you can both get to things quicker without going through filters and filter for your stuff with X. 2: select all

My default saved column setup has species and focus setting, as well as target and current production, so I can sort by whichever I need to change (most frequently used to reset stargates for me, but also to make sure I haven't got anyone still on defence or logistics when I no longer need it).

What would be very helpful is something I meant to propose ages ago, and that's an override for newly created or captured colonies: having each species default to their preferred is a nice flavour, but in the end game you frequently want everything on production.

I rarely change everything in the early to mid game, the penalties for change are fairly high and I tend to make sure new colonies are set where I want on creation, even in the mid game I change from research to production on a case by case until I've got the big expensive end game techs almost complete. But when I've got death rays and blackshield is nearly ready then mass select and change to production is normal, making that a two click process would be very helpful

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 28, 2017 8:36 pm 
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MatGB wrote:
...checko boxes would be good for Objects, [...] 2: select all
CTRL + A


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 29, 2017 2:33 am 
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(Edit): Note that numbers below are incorrect, see next page.

I realized during my last game that shifting focus gives a -3 now. When i used to play it was only -1 (iirc). That's a good change, but it probably means this feature is not so useful as i thought. :p


Last edited by alleryn on Thu Nov 30, 2017 9:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 29, 2017 12:05 pm 
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Playing as human I usually have to do this operations over groups of planets that would benefit from something like alleryn's suggestion:

- Once I get the +5 from asteroid outposts, set focus of every human planet in a system with an asteroid belt to production.
- Once I get the +10 from GGs, set focus of every human planet in a system with a GG to production.
- Once I get a better species than another one S for a given planet type T, (i) build concentration camps on all the planets of type T inhabited by species S, (ii) build colonies of the better species on all uninhabited planets of type T. This can be more complex if you need to consider also the sun type (for banforo and phototrophics).
- Once I'm close to have researched all the techs I want, set focus of every planet to production (for the species that can do it).



The third one can not happen or happen more than once, the rest are always done once (except last one for smaller maps, since you finish game before completing research).

The Objects windows certainly makes all of them easier and faster, but I would appreciate a functionality much like alleryn's wrote, probably in the Objects window, maybe next to or below the Filters and Collapse All buttons or over the column names:

Code:
Set all planets
    inhabited by [dropdown: "any"/<imperial_species>/"none"]
    with environment type [dropdown: "any"/<planet_types>]
    in [dropdown: "any system"/"a system with a gas giant"/"a system with an asteroid belt"]
    with a star of type [dropdown: "any"/<star_types>] [dropdown ""/"or brigther"/"or darker"]
To [dropdown: "focus"/"build"] [dropdown: <focus>] OR [dropdown: <available buildings>]


Or something like that.


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 30, 2017 11:39 am 
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alleryn wrote:
I realized during my last game that shifting focus gives a -3 now. When i used to play it was only -1 (iirc).

Or maybe you researched a tech that does just that? I haven't played the game in a while, but I think the name is 'Force-Energy Structures' or something like that.


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 30, 2017 4:22 pm 
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Jaumito wrote:
alleryn wrote:
I realized during my last game that shifting focus gives a -3 now. When i used to play it was only -1 (iirc).

Or maybe you researched a tech that does just that? I haven't played the game in a while, but I think the name is 'Force-Energy Structures' or something like that.

(Edit): Note that numbers below are incorrect, see next page.

I don't think that was it. I hadn't researched that far into the tree. Iirc, that tech increases the "+1" to "+3" and the "-3" to "-5".

I really only played version 0.4.5 (i think that was it) and nothing until 0.4.7.1, so i think it was changed in that period (or maybe the tooltip was just updated and it always worked this way, but i didn't realize it).


Last edited by alleryn on Thu Nov 30, 2017 9:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 30, 2017 4:44 pm 
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alleryn wrote:
I really only played version 0.4.5 (i think that was it) and nothing until 0.4.7.1, so i think it was changed in that period
Yes, that's actually what happened. Don't remember when exactly, but at some point between 0.4.5 and 0.4.7 this penalty for focus switching has been introduced to discourage micromanaging a "balanced" focus (by constantly switching colonies between industry and reseach focus).


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