FreeOrion

I propose that their be branches of tecnology devoted to the Reserching of OTHER race. (This is completly independent of have special tecnologies that only a particular race can reserch).

Many of these tecnologies would be things that Moo2 generalized among all races for example the DOOM virus. How can this 1 virus affect all races, that seems highly flexible, it can even work on races you didnt even know about when you invented it??

Instead we would have a branch of the tec tree that can not be reserched untill you make contact with another race and which provides you with bonuses that get aplied to interactions ONLY with that race.

So you can Reserch the Alkari Doom Virus to kill alkari's with, or Reserch Klakon Culture to get +3 levels of Diplomacy with the Klackons. Or Basic Psilon Battle tactics to give your ships +10 combat power when they fight the Psilons. We can think up all kinds of cool tecnologies that fall under this heading, they just need to have the following in common

One of the prerequisites for reserch is contact of some particular type (like you have to be conducting trade before you can conduct the "basic Klackon Trade Negotionations reserch or you must have battled the Psilons to reserch "Basic Psilon Battle tactics")

The tecnology grants a benifit when interacting ONLY with the targeted race. The Klakon Doom Virus kills only Klackons, understanding Psilon battle tacktics only helps me fight the Psilons.

The tecnologies could start off with the basics like "Psilon Autopsy" then "Live Psilon Behavior" then "Psilon Language" and "Basic Psilon Culture". These tecnologies act as keys to unlock further reserch options and most importantly incresse your diplomatic options with the particular race (Cant sign a treety if I dont know their language)

And because these tecnologies can be trade just like any other tecnology it greatly incresses the importance of the ENEMY OF MY ENEMY IS MY FRIEND because he will most likly share these valuable tecnologies with you if you agree to join in a war aliance against his oponent, especialy cause you cant stab him in the back with the tecnologies at a latter date.

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Fear is the Mind Killer - Frank Herbert -Dune

Sounds interesting. Though you will have to research more or less dpepnding on how many races are in the game and how many different ones there are.

I'm not sure we can come up with enough meaningful technologies to warrant a branch in the tech tree. First of all, who ever used the death spores in MoO2? Nobody, that's who. (except maybe one die-hard player who really adores MoO2 so hard that it hurts) Seeing this I'm not sure I want to see 20 different kinds of death spores in my tech tree. Also I'm not sure I want to research 20 different versions of alien psychology. This seems flat boring to me and potentially annoying, too.

A lot of the arguments you (Impaler) put forth are realism arguments. And do I really have to repeat what our (royal plural alert!) attitude is towards realism? *shooting Impaler a withering look* No, I didn't think so.

On a side note, even from a realism p.o.v. not all of your arguments make sense. I'm thinking of the psilon battle tactics here. I am pretty sure no two humans would use the same tactics in battle so it's safe bet no two psilons would use the same tactics. Hence this technology doesn't really make sense. Though this technology has a certain Thrawn-ish feel to it which would usually register favorably with me...

So, what I'm saying is this: Do we really need X versions of the same technology to improve your ships effectiveness against aliens? X versions of the same technology to open diplomatic relationships? Imho, the annoyance factor would outweigh the coolness factor by a fair margin. Especially after playing the game a few times I can imagine this getting very annoying. I'm not sure we set an upper limit for the number of races we allow per game - personally I don't see why we should have any limit other than "no more races than starsystems" - but let's say you have 64 races in a game. Do you want to research the same technologies 64 times?

Well, I think I made my p.o.v abundantly clear... *g*

Yes, that is true.

Why research many different race specific techs to improve ships when you can research techs that improve your ships against all races.

Well I imagined that the Race Targeted tecnologies would be stronger then Generalized Tecnologies to compensate. I think it would add a lot of strategy to the game to have these tecnologies because they alow you to control your level of interaction with the other races and alow you to adapt to a new Alien threat. Conversly new uncontacted aliens are more danger ous and 'alien' too you untill you do the reserch. Also the race targeted tecnologies dont need to be hugly difficult to reserch they would be on par with low-mid level tecnologies so as you expand and come into contact with other race over the corse of the game you would do this reserch gradualy, late game you might get access to things like "Universal Translator" that gives you a particular benifit for all races so you dont actualy have to tediusly research every remaining races targeted tecnologies. Its just a matter of setting up the tec tree well.

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Fear is the Mind Killer - Frank Herbert -Dune

What if your ships gained bonuses against specific races based on how much you interact with a race. This would happen automatically. So dealing with the psilons heaps would mean that you have learn't there language, seen there ships. So naturally when designing ships, measures to keep your ships at an advantage against psilon tech would automatically be incorporated.

That sounds a bit like automaticaly calculated Refinment. I like that idea, it could be incorporated with or without race targeted tecnologies.

Lets say I reserch "Anti- Psilon Ship Design" which is basicaly a wide range of modifications to a ship large and small which makes the ship better at fighting the Psilons. I can add this to a ship as a special in the design and it bumps up cost a bit but gives the ship +20% vs Psilons (or something of that nature), but maybe -10% vs other races.

As I have more and more battles with the Psilons the special is self improving as yor people learn more and more about how to beat the Psilons and it goes up to +21, +22, +23 ect ect.

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Fear is the Mind Killer - Frank Herbert -Dune

Yes, that sounds simpler and better.

I don't see where this is simpler. You still need to research this thing once per race and you even need to take one more step and add it to the ship design screen. Talk about micromanagement...

Perhaps if you researched the species part of it.
ie anti insect ship design.
-So your ship will automatically have improvements in every area, such as lasers deadlier to insects, armour resistant to their weapons, etc.

Once you research it, it would be automatically applied to your ships, with an increase in cost. You could research multiple anti race ship designs, meaning vs the insects you have an advantage or vs the humanoids you have an advantage.

I think that's still impractical as you'd need to research the same technology more than once. I don't really know how many "species" we'll have or even if we'll have the concept of species. Some races might not fit into any given species. What if a player creates a race from scratch? Complete with his own graphics and all? (or with placeholder graphics for the less savvy) How would those fit in? Not very well, imho.

Well speicies would be a higher grouping for races to fit into to. In situations such as above, doing things based on these groupings of races allows for simplicity.

But yeah, that could be a problem.

Well tecnicaly your not reserching the same thing over again, your reserching a totaly differnt tec that serves a totaly different purpose, thats kinda the whole point but I do see what you mean.

Atleast consider the inporatance of these tecnologies to war alliance, they could be crutial.

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Fear is the Mind Killer - Frank Herbert -Dune

Yes, what technology you choose to research could be based on who you are at war with, and there will be a history, with why you researched that tech, becuase you were at war, etc.

ie At war with insects, then research anti-insect techs. Allies come to you with an alert of an impending insect invasion, well hey we are the speicalists, with our anti-insect ships.

So yeah, it could be cool. Naturally these bonuses from these techs will only apply when fighting insects. There in lies the risks.

Yes its all about the risk/reward possibilites of making a specialized force rather then a generalized force. Risks and Rewards are te whole point to this type of game.

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Fear is the Mind Killer - Frank Herbert -Dune