FreeOrion

Many have suggested that "Nova Bombs"---weapons capable of destroying a star system + its planets and replacing it with a Black Hole (which will greatly hamper future travel due to the gravity well).

So much so that the FAQ for MOO3 specifically said it would not be there.


Where did the term "Nova Bomb" originate?

I first heard it on "Andromeda" (didn't like the show, but liked the concept).


Why not build "Nova Bombs"?


Maybe it's too hard, maybe it would disrupt the game emgine----in that case, we have seen natural SUPERNOVAS go off: in MOO2, all they did was IRRADIATE every planet in system, and they may or may not kill all population.


Seeing as the game can handle these, why not make a "poor man's Nova Bomb"---a bomb that artificially generates a supernova in a system?


There would have to be a balance rule, like "Only if there are no other fleets in system can you deploy the weapon", etc.


Also, any planet can be terraformed....except Toxic planets, etc.


But what about races, such as Silicoids, that thrive in these conditions?


Shouldn't they be able to bomb a planet in such a way that will "reverse-Terraform" it, making it toxic?


It would be sweet to have the Silicoids attack Earth, and drop and orbital bomb that renders it Toxic, "poisoning the wells", and then retreat.


Just a thought.....


Still, would "Nova Bombs" be a good idea that you'd like?

I, for one, would be very upset if this happened.


I'm quite sure that nova bombs would be technically possible, but I don't see any way that they could ever be balanced in game. Imagine if the terrains in Starcraft could build nukes which would make huge smoldering craters instead of just killing a few units. Can you imagine how that could ever be balanced? I sure can't.

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Time flies like the wind, fruit flies like bananas.

When playing SMAC, any attack with Planet Buster damaged relationships of the civilization that did it. In Civ3 any attack with a nuke caused the same for the civ that did it - like whole world declares war against such civ. I think having Nova-bomb could work similar way in the FO game. Punishment for using Nova-bomb for the empire that used it could be severe, such as use of it might be often not recommended. That might work if the game will incorporate some sufficient sociological-cultural model, with factors of great importance like race reputation or empire reputation. I mean that loosing reputation might be often too high price for the empire to use Nova-bombs. Thus balance of the game might be kept. In civ games i usually built some nukes, but did not use them, even when attacked - just having all other civs against me was too much to handle and not worth of quick revange with nuclear weapon. And somehow, though it was only a game, i wanted to keep my image ........

i have one more thought - and i agree - that >>IS<< crazy. Thinking of Larry Niven's book "Ringworld", there was something better than just Star Booster,Nova-Bomb. there was kinda Galactic Core Explosion. So the whole Galaxy was going to die.......... apart from some really sturdy engineering wonders such as ringworld. that would bring all empires to their knees - and every player would have to start from stone age, primitive tools, and so on......

It is possible to balance it, but make it very expensive, very big, so can be transported only by a huge slow carrier without armour that breaks if a small fighter touch it so you will need a huge fleet for protecting it. After it explodes make all enemies hate you and your people unrest (unless you are insectoid). Maybe a stupid 3d effect that you will try it only once before forgeting about nova bombs.
But it is possible !

I voted yes, but perhaps it only kills like 90% of the population in a system, and requires the largest hull and a HUGE amount of cash to create. also, it might take a few turns before it blows, kinda like a timer, so people would have a chance to fight back. This would also make it a costly venture for the bomb makers as it would take years and an armada of ships (which would be destroyed aswell). People would be hesitant to use it, but there are times when it could be more then handy. For example

You've stumbled onto their breadbasket system, lots of rich productive worlds. Destroying the system would leave them severely crippled. On the other hand, it would tap a huge amount of resources to accomplish. and even then they have a chance to fight back.

Which in my mind is pretty balanced. because well, if it got destroyed (the bomb, before it blows) it would do nothing, but if it detonates, good by system.

However, if this nova bomb is in, perhaps star and planetary generation technologies should be in as well, so you can "rebuild" that perfect system after the damned Tjari collected on your loan and blew it to bits. (after of course, they evacuated their asteroid base orbiting the same system)

Anywho thats just my idea.

EP.

EDIT: About the Relations effect of it, i think it should be frowned upon by people who are allied with the receiving end. I mean, if everyone is mortal enemies with the bombed system, why would they get ticked at you for removing the system from the picture?

EDIT2: Its like "You blew up my mortal enemy! how dare you! I now like you less then before!"

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Only after 14 hours of work, will you realize you can do it in 2.

What about to balance it like in MOO1 (was a random event).
Your star is going to be a nova if not:
1. 1000 research points in 10 turns
2. Technology level > n
3. Your great armada of ships find the bomb in time
4. ....

Maybe just the ability to trigger a supernova in the game on purpose.

And , by MOO2 rules, it would take several turns for the Sun to go Nova. The scientists on the planet could still be put in max-research mode and stop it, but if they were bombed so only a few million are left, they physically can't.

Again, just like M002 Supernovas, except these ones are triggered artificially (the star is not destroyed)


Even so, Nova Bombs (where DOES that name come from?) would be cool.




And as for play balance? SMAC had Planet Busters, but EVERY other faction would turn on you for using them. Same for Nova Bombs.

Also, Planet Buster had EXTREME environmental damagae: they caused global warming that raised the sea level, destroying coast cities outright, and causing hostile native life forms to proliferate, attacking the remaing cities.


Remember the HyperSpace Flux from MOO2, that shuts down ALL Galactic Hyperspace travel?


The way I see it, the use of a Nova Bomb should also trigger a HyperSpace Flux (I know this added ability makes it insanely powerful).

But think about it: the VAST gravity well shift caused by the rapid formation of a Supernova (and Black Hole). would cause such a violent shock to surrounding HyperSpace that a HyperSpace Flux would be created, stopping all Galactic Travel.


The other races wouldn't exactly take kindly to you stopping up their Empires and starting a small-scale Dark Age, and would all turn on you.

Also, the damage would hurt you just as much.



Another great balance: You need to have at least one colony in the system to be destroyed, and it BUILD the Nova Bomb in the Build Queue.


This would be useful as a trap: ure the entire Enemy fleet into the system, the blow it up with their ships in it.



Either way, I like it. Also, the balance is the same balance the Stellar Converters had: Other races can develop them too.


MOO3 stresses diplomacy over the bloodbath of MOO2.


Maybe this could be incorporated. The Orion Sector Senate bans Nova Bombs, you could use them but they'd hate you, etc.


Biggest point: Nova Bombs would be fun as a weapon, but the real fun is the politic implications:

If in a 8 species Galaxy, TWO and only TWO opposing races developed Nova Bombs, what would happen to the political scene?

There would be a MAD situation parallel to that of the Cold War: MAD=Mutually Assured Destruction.


The balance is that if another race develops Nova Bombs, the first race they take out is the only other race with Nova Bombs.


And if these TWO races are now the Superpowers, because of their Nova Bombs, what side would the races caught in the middle take? I think it would make for great diplomatic tension (Don't think complex diplomacy is cool? That's what RTS are for [although I do like them. Space Empire diplomacy is great).




Essentially, in terms of play balance, I don't see how Nova Bombs are all that different from Stellar Converters, only more so.

Actually, since a Nova Bomb causes a star to go super-nova... I think this technology would fit in quite well with the Eaxaw. Eventually, of course, they should develeop an ultra-nova bomb... a tiny device that links the core of every star in the universe to every other star in the universe... it would be about the size of a cricket ball... and would take a device similar in nature to a cricket bat to activate it... hehe... Of course, it is everyone else's job in the universe to invent slo-time, so they can encapsulate the Eaxaw home system in a pocket of this stuff...

Nova bombs would be cool. And they could be balanced. After all if everyone can get them, then everyone is even. I supose better researchers will get the nova bomb first.

@Voice In the Wilderness
Everything you have said in your last post would be good enough to balance nova bombs except:

Sacrificing a colony should not be necesary. A nova bomb could be detonated by a ship or something. Maybe it has to get close enough to the star during battle. So, battles are likely going to include all planets in the system in one battle, the star being at the center. You would get your 'Nova Bomb' ship as close as possible, to ensure that the Nova Bomb would make it to the star (maybe its launched in some kind of big missile).

We can have nova-bombs be like galaxy missiles that can be launched from a planet. And the other guy can protect himself with SDI Defense like in civ.

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There was a short story (i don't remember the name nor author) about some civilization, which lauched a gravity-absorbing torpedo into the old star. Their plan was to make it super-nova before star became black-hole, as it could disrupt their star lanes or smth like that.
And there was another civ, who habitate this system and hold that star in gravitational grips, preventing star from blowing already for ages.
So, torpedo dive into star, absorb all gravity, star blows, civ died...
Sad story...

I think super-nova bomb could be cool thing to keep everyone alerted.
Slow moving (for, let say, unstable structure reason)and fragile device, that could be launched only from planet. If bomb not destroyed on its way to star, then "super nova" event triggered (as it was in MOO2). System must quickly research solar rejuvenator to prevent explosion in, let say, 10 turns or... Or another way: w/o "super nova" trigger, bomb just blows, when hits the star. So, escorting fleet would die along with the star...

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The problem is you are underbalancing this Nova -Bomb... why would anyone bother to use it if it is just a Very expensive way to mass nuke colonies.

The Stellar converter in MOO2/3 was at least a decent weapon and had an effect that was nearly or actually irreversible.

We could say that the nova bomb is launched from planets, that would be cool. And nova bombs, being a missile travel at the speed your ships travel. You might as well say that you have to build a ship of type 'nova bomb. Basically it is a giant missile. We could also say that when it destroys a star, it creates a hyperspace flux around the target area (a radius area). Also, perhaps all planets in the system are burned to a crisp or destroyed.

I was thinking more simply like nova-bombs having no-ship tech and can't be destroyed unless the other guy got SDI.

More generally, each time you research a bomb or a missile, you automatically get a planetary bomb version that can be launched from your planets, kinda like cruise missiles. Maybe when you researched stellar conversion, you get nova-B. The bombs works just like it ship except you don't design them; they build from the queue and they fly like a ship.

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