Fun With Space Monsters

For what's not in 'Top Priority Game Design'. Post your ideas, visions, suggestions for the game, rules, modifications, etc.

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labgnome
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Fun With Space Monsters

#1 Post by labgnome »

I hope this is the right place to put this.

In my play experience, I think one of the things I enjoyed the most was getting a Kraken Nest after researching Domesticated Megafauna. I noticed that, besides organic hulls, there really wasn't much else after this, and I thought it might be interesting to have more in that area, possibly to be able to build an empire around space monsters. So I have ideas for additional techs around using space monsters.

Firstly, while I enjoyed having it, I really disliked the name "Domesticated Megafauna" for the tech. I also greatly dislike Star Trek Online's "Cosomozoan" terminology too. The snowflakes and dyson trees are clearly not "fauna" or really animal-like at all, also the space krill don't seem to be accurately "mega" or in any way large organisms. I think something like "Astrobiota" or "Cosmobiota" might be a better term to use in the tech tree, just to more accurately cover what it's supposed to describe.

Secondly I have ideas for some techs and structures that might be able to make a space-monster empire somewhat feasible.

"Megafauna Maturation" (or Astrobiota Maturation/Cosmobiota Maturation): Creates a chance (maybe 20%) of a tamed space-monster nest producing a 2nd stage/level space-monster. It might also increase the chance of spawning. It would require Domesticated Megafauna.

This technology might actually allow the production of a structure on a colony or outpost with a megafauna nest for the effect. If so, the subsequent techs would be improvements for the structure. At this point I don't know if there are any special-dependent structures or how doable that is.

"(Megafauna?) Growth Pen": the structure that would produce the Maturation tech's effect.

"Advanced (Megafauna?) Maturation": Creates a chance (maybe 20%) of a tamed space-monster nest producing a 3rd stage/level space-monster and an increased chance (maybe 30%) of producing a 2nd stage/level space-monster. It would require the Maturation tech. It might have a secondary tech too.

"Induced (Megafauna?) Maturation": Causes any tamed space-monster nests to produce 2nd stage/level instead of 1st stage/level space-monsters. Also maybe increases the chance of 3rd stage/level space-monsters (40%?). It would (probably, see below) require the Advanced Maturation tech, and one additional tech.

I'd prefer, if possible, for the Induced tech's effect to be dependent on a structure, possibly a secondary structure to come into effect. The same for the Forced Growth tech. Alternately it could be an improvement for the Growth Pen.

"(Megafauna?) Growth Chamber": produces the Induced Maturation effect. (If applicable) Can only be build on a colony or outpost with a Growth Pen.

"Forced (Megafauna?) Maturation": Causes any tamed space-monster nests to produce 3rd stage/level space-monsters. It would require the Induced Maturation tech and either two other techs or one other tech one level past the Induced Maturation tech.

"(Megafauna?) Growth Tank": Causes the effect of the Forced Maturation tech. It can only be built on a colony or outpost with a Growth Chamber.

"(Megafauna?) Gestation": allows an appropriate space-monster nest to be created on a colony or outpost.

This is the tech I'm the least certain about. I don't know if including it at all would be a potential game-breaker. I don't know for sure where I'd want it in the tech tree. I'm also not certain what I'd want it to do, or how feasible it would be as a singular tech.

I want the tech to allow you to produce a monster nest, that you could then upgrade, presumably as a structure. Alternately it might be a ship-part like the Krill Spawner. I'd also, for the sake of balance and logical association, for you to only be able to produce monster nests of the type you already have. I.E.: If you have a kraken nest, but not a snowflake nest, you should be able to create new kraken nests but not new snowflake nests. I'm not sure how to make that kind of dependency wok mechanically. Maybe only have planets that already have nests, or even nests with improvements, able to produce new nests? The nest itself would, presumably, be expensive to construct, but not so pricey as to make just hunting out new nests an easier alternative.

I for sure want the tech before the Induced Maturation tech, if it's in the tree. If it's not too powerful I'd have it as a tech that would be gotten from either Domestication, or the first Maturation tech. If more powerful it would be between Advanced Maturation and Induced Maturation.

Thirdly, with there being clearly different kinds of space-monsters, I was thinking that there might be spawning bonuses for similar species. Something like organic metabolism species would get spawning bonuses for kraken nests, lithic metabolism species would get spawning bonuses for snowflake nests, phototrophic metabolism species might get spawning bonuses for dyson trees of floaters. Self-sustaining species might get spawning bonuses for juggernauts(?). The general idea being that species would (presumably) have a better understanding of the biology of other species more similar to themselves.
All of my contributions should be considered released under creative commons attribution share-alike license, CC-BY-SA 3.0 for use in, by and with the Free Orion project.

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Vezzra
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Re: Fun With Space Monsters

#2 Post by Vezzra »

I think these are some interesting ideas. Now you just need to find someone to implement the required content scripts... or you could try to do it yourself ;)

Bluehand
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Re: Fun With Space Monsters

#3 Post by Bluehand »

I wrote up the scripts for this, and tested it out with the super testers. It still probably needs a lot of balancing but it works as intended. It would be a good option for someone trying for a tech victory, because its low on PP and the monsters are best on the defense, unless you're sporing.

I still have no idea how to generate a patch file, but I'd be happy to post the modifications I made to the txt files when I get home from work later.
Code or patches I post are released under the CC and GPL licences in use for the FO project.

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labgnome
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Re: Fun With Space Monsters

#4 Post by labgnome »

Bluehand wrote:I wrote up the scripts for this, and tested it out with the super testers. It still probably needs a lot of balancing but it works as intended. It would be a good option for someone trying for a tech victory, because its low on PP and the monsters are best on the defense, unless you're sporing.

I still have no idea how to generate a patch file, but I'd be happy to post the modifications I made to the txt files when I get home from work later.
That sounds awesome. I'll take what I can. What other prerequisites, if any did you put in for the techs?
All of my contributions should be considered released under creative commons attribution share-alike license, CC-BY-SA 3.0 for use in, by and with the Free Orion project.

Bluehand
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Re: Fun With Space Monsters

#5 Post by Bluehand »

labgnome wrote:
Bluehand wrote:I wrote up the scripts for this, and tested it out with the super testers. It still probably needs a lot of balancing but it works as intended. It would be a good option for someone trying for a tech victory, because its low on PP and the monsters are best on the defense, unless you're sporing.

I still have no idea how to generate a patch file, but I'd be happy to post the modifications I made to the txt files when I get home from work later.
That sounds awesome. I'll take what I can. What other prerequisites, if any did you put in for the techs?
I made four levels of Megafauna Maturation, with two enhancing buildings, one for the first level that enables the extra production, and one for the last, which enables 100% third level monster production.

The propagation tech is enabled after Maturation III and allows creation of new monster nest specials on appropriate worlds if you have one of that type already.

I didn't tie them to any techs beside Domesticated Megafauna, but I do think it would make sense to have some connections with the growth and/or organic ship tech lines.

You can consider basically everything a placeholder at this point. The monster production scales up pretty much how I envisioned, though it may need to be scaled back to be balanced. I made all the building costs dependent on ship upkeep multiplier, but they may also need to be more expensive. I think the RP costs should be increased as well, depending on what additional prereqs they get. I haven't had a chance to play test it in a normal game, so I'm just guessing with a lot of this stuff.

The dynamic I'm aiming for is that a low production/high tech empire could use this to shore up their fleet in the mid game to defend themselves from more militaristic empires, and maybe do some expansion and harassing, but it shouldn't be competitive with a high tech navy, especially in the late game. This is achieved partially because the acceleration of production is linear, rather than exponential, like PP growth is.

The attached file contains new buildings, techs, and strings, and modified specials, as well as a summary of your original post I used as a road map. You'll have to copy paste it all in manually if you want to use it.
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FreeOrion Monster Mod.txt
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Code or patches I post are released under the CC and GPL licences in use for the FO project.

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labgnome
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Re: Fun With Space Monsters

#6 Post by labgnome »

Bluehand wrote:I made four levels of Megafauna Maturation, with two enhancing buildings, one for the first level that enables the extra production, and one for the last, which enables 100% third level monster production.

The propagation tech is enabled after Maturation III and allows creation of new monster nest specials on appropriate worlds if you have one of that type already.

I didn't tie them to any techs beside Domesticated Megafauna, but I do think it would make sense to have some connections with the growth and/or organic ship tech lines.

You can consider basically everything a placeholder at this point. The monster production scales up pretty much how I envisioned, though it may need to be scaled back to be balanced. I made all the building costs dependent on ship upkeep multiplier, but they may also need to be more expensive. I think the RP costs should be increased as well, depending on what additional prereqs they get. I haven't had a chance to play test it in a normal game, so I'm just guessing with a lot of this stuff.

The dynamic I'm aiming for is that a low production/high tech empire could use this to shore up their fleet in the mid game to defend themselves from more militaristic empires, and maybe do some expansion and harassing, but it shouldn't be competitive with a high tech navy, especially in the late game. This is achieved partially because the acceleration of production is linear, rather than exponential, like PP growth is.

The attached file contains new buildings, techs, and strings, and modified specials, as well as a summary of your original post I used as a road map. You'll have to copy paste it all in manually if you want to use it.
I'm going to test this out on my own game, I'm so excited.
All of my contributions should be considered released under creative commons attribution share-alike license, CC-BY-SA 3.0 for use in, by and with the Free Orion project.

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Sloth
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Re: Fun With Space Monsters

#7 Post by Sloth »

I alway liked these ideas of labgnome. I think it's tad bit too much to add 5 techs and 5 buildings centered around the monster nests right away.

But i plan to create a PR (after 0.4.5) that adds at least one tech (that raises the spawn rate) and one building (that allows level 2 monsters to be spawned). If testing is positive it can be expanded upon later.

So please post suggestions, wishes, ideas, etc.
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Dilvish
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Re: Fun With Space Monsters

#8 Post by Dilvish »

I like the idea in general, but the L3 mobs can be such powerful auxiliary troops due to their free monstrous structure, that I'm a bit wary as well. So, just noting that it will need a fair bit of attention and balancing. Perhaps these breeding pens increase the risk that one will have some zoo-malaise special attached to it, and/or go rogue.
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