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 Post subject: Re: X'orer
PostPosted: Fri Apr 24, 2015 7:04 pm 
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Dyson Forest
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Vezzra wrote:
In that case you'd need to add some disruptive effect to them that even applies if you don't conquer their planet. And something even worse if you try to wipe them out (something that causes some kind of massive disruption within a certain distance, a unique kind of defence they have). Otherwise there isn't much to decide here: either leave their planet alone as completely worthless, or just kill them with Concentration Camps.

I have to admit, I like the idea of a native species that's nothing but a major PITA... :twisted:
Quick question: if they do get the "destroy all buildings in a turn" thing, wouldn't that make using concentration camps on them a real difficulty, if not basically impossible?

MatGB wrote:
So do I, you could use the Xenophobic macros as a basis and make it apply to all within range fairly easily, I think, and it would be quite cool to have a real annoyance hanging around in some areas. But it needs to be an annoyance, not a game breaking malus.
Vezzra wrote:
Of course. That's exactly how I'd envision such natives: Having an annoying effect on the not-to-far neighborhood, nothing too bad. Unless you try to conquer them, that could make things already worse. And if you even try to wipe them out to get completely rid of them, things should get really nasty. So you have to decide: put up with a minor annoyance forever, or a really nasty one for a limited time.
em3 wrote:
Maybe give them great infrastructure so that planet defenses and shields are resotred faster?
I like that people are into the idea of this species. However I think these suggestions are getting into the territory of overly-complicated, especially with the idea of them destroying building after a turn. Let's try one of these ideas at a time, and see how it makes them play. Maybe infrastructure or the "destroy buildings" script, then if they really need more work let's do that. I'd much rather see them in a form that's able to actually make it into the game than something so complex that it never makes it in. I defiantly like the idea of a PITA species, maybe ultimately a few, as it makes the idea of "bad grabs" a bit of fun, they're not just less good than the other possible options, they're actually trouble.

If the xenophobia on a non-colonizing/non-shipbuilding species isn't a good idea then maybe they should just get ultimate quality stealth. Maybe they could be marked for a happiness reducing effect on their neighbors for once we get the happiness mechanic worked out.

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 Post subject: Re: X'orer
PostPosted: Sun Apr 26, 2015 1:38 pm 
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labgnome wrote:
Quick question: if they do get the "destroy all buildings in a turn" thing, wouldn't that make using concentration camps on them a real difficulty, if not basically impossible?
It would render the Concentration Camp building useless, yes. One reason why the "destroy all buildings" idea might not be a very good one.
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However I think these suggestions are getting into the territory of overly-complicated, especially with the idea of them destroying building after a turn. Let's try one of these ideas at a time, and see how it makes them play. Maybe infrastructure or the "destroy buildings" script, then if they really need more work let's do that.
I don't think the latter can work if the intention is to create a species that actually doesn't offer anything valuable, but only causes problems. Consequently, there is no meaningful choice here, the obviously right thing is to conquer the planet, wipe out the annoying buggers and recolonize with a useful species.

Of course, you can employ something like the "destroy all buildings" mechanic so that isn't possible, but even then you don't offer the player a choice - you basically just confront him with an annoyance he can't do much about and has to live with as best as possible. That will work, but is probably not much fun.

So, IMO the preferable approch in this case is instead of giving the player a choice, where he can gain an advantage/bonus at a price, give him the choice between several evils. Which would be:

a) Leave these buggers alone and suffer some annoying, but not devastating effects on all colonies within a certain distance.
b) Conquer their world, which could enable you to at least get some production/research out of them. The negative effects on nearby colonies should get worse however.
c) Conquer their world and try to wipe them out with Concentration Camps. That way you will be rid of them after some time, but until then the negative effects on nearby colonies should get really, really bad.

That should not be too complicated to start with. Of course that does not work with "destroy all buildings", but that mechanic does not sound very interesting/fun anyway to me.


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 Post subject: Re: X'orer
PostPosted: Sun Apr 26, 2015 5:07 pm 
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Vezzra wrote:
It would render the Concentration Camp building useless, yes. One reason why the "destroy all buildings" idea might not be a very good one.
You could simply have it be "destroy all buildings except concentration camps", or perhaps better yet, "destroy all buildings unless there is a concentration camp on the planet".

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 Post subject: Re: X'orer
PostPosted: Sun Apr 26, 2015 5:13 pm 
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One observation
Vezzra wrote:
a) Leave these buggers alone and suffer some annoying, but not devastating effects on all colonies within a certain distance.
b) Conquer their world, which could enable you to at least get some production/research out of them. The negative effects on nearby colonies should get worse however.
c) Conquer their world and try to wipe them out with Concentration Camps. That way you will be rid of them after some time, but until then the negative effects on nearby colonies should get really, really bad.
I'm hoping at some point to redo/expand the Death Spore/Bio-Terminators (and indeed bio terror projection nonsense) parts so that they, or an equivalent, work on Robotic species, at which point you've got a 4th option, good to take this into account with this species design I think.

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 Post subject: Re: X'orer
PostPosted: Sun Apr 26, 2015 5:32 pm 
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Dilvish wrote:
You could simply have it be "destroy all buildings except concentration camps", or perhaps better yet, "destroy all buildings unless there is a concentration camp on the planet".
That could work.


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 Post subject: Re: X'orer
PostPosted: Sun Apr 26, 2015 5:35 pm 
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MatGB wrote:
I'm hoping at some point to redo/expand the Death Spore/Bio-Terminators (and indeed bio terror projection nonsense) parts so that they, or an equivalent, work on Robotic species, at which point you've got a 4th option, good to take this into account with this species design I think.
Yeah, thought of that too, but this can probably also be covered by option c). When you try to wipe them out via orbital bombardment, they react the same way as when you build CC.

Or you can come up with an option d) of course.


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 Post subject: Re: X'orer
PostPosted: Mon Jun 22, 2015 7:09 pm 
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So I've been away for a while, but I will say I like the consideration these guys are getting. I will say I'd be willing to just drop the xenophobic trait in favor of a "destroys all building after a turn" as I think that's more interesting. They are supposed to be big PITA's but if having both is just game-breaking (at least for them) then I'd rather go with the option that sounds more interesting and gives them more flavor. I also like the idea that part of what makes them annoying is that you can't just get rid of them once you conquer them.

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 Post subject: Re: X'orer
PostPosted: Wed Nov 30, 2016 2:37 am 
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labgnome wrote:
So I've been away for a while, but I will say I like the consideration these guys are getting. I will say I'd be willing to just drop the xenophobic trait in favor of a "destroys all building after a turn" as I think that's more interesting. They are supposed to be big PITA's but if having both is just game-breaking (at least for them) then I'd rather go with the option that sounds more interesting and gives them more flavor. I also like the idea that part of what makes them annoying is that you can't just get rid of them once you conquer them.


That might work with the science idea... you conquer the planet so you can study them...(if they have the advanced tech to repel any modification)... they themselves are never actually "part" of your empire, instead they are a interesting phenomena that renders the planet unusable except as a source of research.


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 Post subject: Re: X'orer
PostPosted: Thu Dec 01, 2016 4:48 pm 
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Quote:
That might work with the science idea... you conquer the planet so you can study them...(if they have the advanced tech to repel any modification)... they themselves are never actually "part" of your empire, instead they are a interesting phenomena that renders the planet unusable except as a source of research.


I mean that's supposed to be the general idea. I have been away for a while and I will say I like the new bombardment stuff, so maybe making them have to be bombarded from orbit with EMP weapons unless you want to deal with them with them.

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