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 Post subject: Gyisache: Artwork
PostPosted: Fri Jun 13, 2008 8:39 pm 
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Didn't I say they'd get their own topic? ;)

This thread will be for everything Gyisache that has pictures. RED means ENGINE

Image
Gyisache Ship Line Schematic

Right here are schematics, preliminaries really, for one line of ships; small, medium, large and huge sizes of ship. No fighters, one model each.

Actually, there are 10 other pages of sketches floating around in a trashcan somewhere, but IMHO, this is the best of the lot. Please don't compare these to calamari cruisers, I know what they look like...
Anyways the grey lines don't mean anything and the red boxes denote engine exhausts. The design of these ships adheres strictly to this philosophy:

Utilae wrote:
The Gyisache ships should have the following traits:
-able to retreat/runaway ie speed
-small, stealthy, not noticeable
-individually small, but together a group of them are a 'flock'. Like a school of fish, they can come together to look like a bigger fish.


And my solutions for those requisites.

Able to run away
To do this, I gave em' symmetrical engine blocks. These wing shaped ships have engines in front that are just as powerful as in back. It was a novel approach I thought, instead of just attaching them to a huge rocket motor (which I did consider)

Small and stealthy
I suggest dark shades then, even though these are not colored. Various shades of taupe would be a good color for their ships. Also, they look nice and sleek for the purpose of looking small, stealthy and speedy.

A school of fish; small alone, big together.
I'm not sure if I misunderstood this one or not. The larger ships are composed of many ovoid ships put together in a particular formation. If you look closely, each of the ovoid shapes are really supposed to be ships, though you wouldn't know it without being told that beforehand. To be honest, I think I failed miserably, but I did my best. I really have no idea how to this.

Comments? Suggestions? Complaints? Praises? All are welcome, especially money donations. I love those.

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Last edited by Josh on Fri Jan 30, 2009 3:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 13, 2008 9:48 pm 
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I think I failed miserably.

Don't be too hard on yourself. I love how you've developed sleek shapes into visually heavier shapes. You succeeded in all 3 points IMO. The front engine part is indeed a novel idea and I'm not sure what tzlaine or geoff think of it. It might get abandoned for game design reasons, since it means the ships will be able to move backwards, which other ships might not be able to do?

I really like the schematic approach, as it easily allows to put more stages in between or do some more variations.

Just one question: How are those ships manufactured and what materials are they made of?


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 13, 2008 10:37 pm 
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Everybody knows their ships are manufactured with magical pixie dust

Honestly I have no idea. You'd have to ask Utilae or impaler or somebody in the story forums who collaborated on the science behind the Gyisache. All I do is draw the pictures. :P

Uhm. Maybe some stealth technology is involved? This has to do with the texturing question, doesn't it?

The forward/backward engines are all just for show, not as a game changing element at all, so you can remove them if you want. I feel that configuration complements their cowardice aspect because they can run away battle as fast as they came, faster even. One of the wonderful things about working for handwavium heavy project is that I can throw realism out the window when designing these. Obviously these would totally never ever work in any real space context. So yeah, if you guys would like to see a giant rocket motor instead...

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Last edited by Josh on Sat Jun 14, 2008 5:24 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 13, 2008 10:52 pm 
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Overall it looks very good, the only thing that looks odd to me is the basically 2d shape of the medium and large ships, I'd have expected the herd to cluster in a cylandrial or spherical shape rather than a body & wings, did it just not look that good?

Josh wrote:
Actually, there are 10 other pages of sketches floating around in a trashcan somewhere, but IMHO, this is the best of the lot. Please don't compare these to calamari cruisers, I know what they look like...

Nothing like Mon Calamari ships, I just checked ;) Once you start sticking multiple ships together the resemblance just fades away

Josh wrote:
To do this, I gave em' symmetrical engine blocks. These wing shaped ships have engines in front that are just as powerful as in back. It was a novel approach I thought, instead of just attaching them to a huge rocket motor (which I did consider)

Nice idea! I hope it the actually gives them reverse thrusters in combat, of course a disadvantage would be required to balance it, higher cost or less component space would do, assuming that being cowards isn't disadvantage enough.

As for realism, I don't see why it wouldn't work in space, its laughably inefficient to have two engines but that's really a matter of priorities, I can easily see running away fast as a higher priority to cost for the Gyisache.

Josh wrote:
A school of fish; small alone, big together.
I'm not sure if I misunderstood this one or not. The larger ships are composed of many ovoid ships put together in a particular formation. If you look closely, each of the ovoid shapes are really supposed to be ships, though you wouldn't know it without being told that beforehand. To be honest, I think I failed miserably, but I did my best. I really have no idea how to this.

IMO you did fine, increasing the number of engines on the Huge design so its one per component ship might help.

I'd guess the original concept was to have multiple ships that wern't physically connected but were controlled as one unit, but your interpretation looks great with a little imagination to see beyond an outline sketch. I think the design requires detail to work fully.

It would be kind of nice if when ordered to retreat the ships break up into their component ships, it would be a nice characterisation of an "every man for himself" panic rather than an orderly military retreat as well as being a much harder target to take down, the actual HP of the surviving ship is the sum of all components that escaped.


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 14, 2008 12:03 am 
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I like these sketches a lot. Is a fighter sketch in the offing?


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 14, 2008 4:58 am 
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Yep, bombers and interceptors both :)
I was gonna do assault shuttles, but I recently found out we don't have those, so I'm not going to do them unless somebody changes their mind.

Also, I didn't give pd a very straight answer so here's a second try: Gyisache ships are pretty much constructed in the manner I roughly described in the storyboard thread. It's awful, but the moth-eaten gist of it is quoted below...

In the storyboard I wrote:
Gyisache ships are composed of pod shaped modules that have specific functions. Individual pods incorporate themselves to make larger ships (there is an underlying sociological reason for this) by being permanently fused together from disparate crews/ships. Such ships are not easily disbanded, but are often the results of intense modification.
The modular system allows for the implementation of specialized modules that may differ in appearance or size. The resulting image is that of a grape cluster, where the mish-mash of designs makes it difficult to tell whether they are coming or going.

The compulsive cowardice of the Gyisache prevents them from forming a coherent force, but successful captains can sometimes shackle together groups of unwilling cannon fodder for their own purposes. The bravest (insane) Gyisache would be the captains of these cluster-ships, lying deep within the interior of the loosely defined super structure.


As for the materials, it's probably made out of composite RAM or whatever it is they put in the F117's coating (they are stealthy ships). Nothing shiny, smooth yet rough, like sandstone maybe. Not entirely sure. I'm going off what Utilae said about these ships being stealthy, so my description makes sense to me at least.

Tortanick wrote:
Overall it looks very good, the only thing that looks odd to me is the basically 2d shape of the medium and large ships, I'd have expected the herd to cluster in a cylindrical or spherical shape rather than a body & wings, did it just not look that good?


Nope, your right, you got me. I thought the wings just looked cool. No reason they should really be wing shaped, it just made sense at the time I drew it, so I stuck with it. Maybe the next phase will do away with that.

Tortanick wrote:
I'd guess the original concept was to have multiple ships that wern't physically connected but were controlled as one unit...


Ohh, woops. Not physically connected. Never thought of that. I was always thinking about the design in relation to the entire game, so I just made them into one interconnected mass. Also, the poly count worries me if I do it that way you just suggested.

edit:
And oh yeah, I remembered something important. I really wanted the huge ships to be FO's doomstar/deathstar/mobile battlestation equivalent all around, just in case we never expand beyond 4 sizes, so that's why my sketch doesn't look like a wing. I also have a rather useful image link for all you artists out there who want to know what it takes to design a ship line. Analyzing this will help you far more than anything I could say.

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 14, 2008 9:17 pm 
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Josh wrote:
Nope, your right, you got me. I thought the wings just looked cool. No reason they should really be wing shaped, it just made sense at the time I drew it, so I stuck with it. Maybe the next phase will do away with that.

Well according to the design pad races will have multiple hulls per size for different roles, eventually, so maybe both styles will crop up


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 Post subject: Alternate ship line
PostPosted: Sun Jun 29, 2008 7:04 pm 
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Rough

Same problem, different approach.*

Sorry I'm so slow with the concepts; I just got back from a trip and cleaning the house. (I don't live alone and I'm the only one who knows how to clean around here :? )

Any questions?




*follow the link if you don't know why I have totally different sketches from the last time

edit:
Image
Gyisache ships; Top-down views (non 3-dimensional)

No questions? Then let me break it down for you a bit...

Nothing has really changed from the previous sketches, (the story wise anyways) it's just that details have come to my attention that I wasn't aware of before, such as:

- (mostly) spheroidal shapes.
- "segmented" in appearance.
- physically connected?
- Very dark, murky, and opposite of shiny.
- Getting the impression these ships were made by a species with no appreciation for beauty. Extremely function over form.

I've developed them more in color and in a different style so we can discuss what works
and what doesn't, everything here is purely visual. I know some people have been discussing weird abilities like being able to split into smaller ships, or moving backwards, just want to make it very clear that, despite the visual cues, all features are just that: visual. Gyisache ships first and foremost behave like any other ship.

Essentially, these ships are conceived by cowards, built by cowards and flown by cowards. I want you to tell me, knowing what you know about this species, tell me what you would expect their ships to look like.

Also, it's based on Utilae's race, I thought I'd just remind everybody about that.

edit:
A few other things I forgot to mention:

they vaguely resemble soccer balls or turtle shells so it's hard to tell which angle is best to attack from. You also can't tell the difference between the engine ports, weapon ports or communication ports for the same reason. (they all look the same.) Gyisache love redundant redundancy systems. Anything to trick a foe.

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 01, 2008 9:35 am 
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Hey, those are sweet!!! :mrgreen:

I think you now need to work on how they connect. Lines drawn between them are probably too easy.
Maybe docking ports connect or something like that. Some kind of transformation, eg folding parts of the ship.

Anyway, good work so far.


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 01, 2008 10:52 am 
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Its looking good so far, one question though: that's a front on view of a spherical formation right? It wouldn't look good if they used a 2d formation. [edit] whoops, I missed the part where you said it was ;)

Also I'd consider having 3 ships for the small hull and working up from their.

utilae: Do they actually need to connect? They could just fly in formation.


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 02, 2008 7:01 am 
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I guess so. It's not like they need to socialise or anything. :)


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 02, 2008 8:52 am 
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Now I'm confused... you just reminded me that Gyisache are an incredibly social species who would want to be physically close, but your simile says your being straight.


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 Post subject: Presentation
PostPosted: Thu Jul 03, 2008 6:42 pm 
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Bleh. Okay tzlaine,
Image
I finally did the fighters and bombers

It's now alot easier to stare at for long periods of time without that glaring white background*. I know it hurt my eyes to be honest, so I'm preparing a written apology for any blindness I may have caused (which they probably won't be able to see anyways, so I'm off the hook!).

Also, I don't know how much further I should go with these concepts; They could go on forever and ever, so I'm going to declare them ready for servicing as is, though I will probably have to do some more later.

... and I should also probably reply to my loyal fans comments.

Utilae wrote:
Maybe docking ports connect or something like that. Some kind of transformation, eg folding parts of the ship.


... If you could give me a picture of what you want, that would be very helpful. (Geoff is good at this, he uses MS paint I think)

Tortanick wrote:
...Gyisache are an incredibly social species who would want to be physically close...


Yeah, that's true. I never understood why multiple ships would suit them and I've been wary of literally translating their spaceships into herds. It's very difficult for me to wrap my head around how one ship is just multiple ships in game too. Seems to me it would better suit them if... actually maybe you should just see how these guys did it.

edit:
Yes, the bomber looks like a jack, I know. I did it on purpose.


*For any Graphic Designers out there: Do you have any tips for presentation? Graphic Design isn't my area of expertise.

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Last edited by Josh on Thu Jul 03, 2008 9:15 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 03, 2008 8:06 pm 
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For any Graphic Designers out there: Do you have any tips for presentation? Graphic Design isn't my area of expertise.

Keep it simple. Use some slight falloffs. Don't use isolated lines, if you don't have to - use shapes or groups of lines. You can connect certain elements by using a shape in the background. Let the foreground elements overlap this background shape(break out of the contour). You can use background shapes to create nice compositions and actually guide the eye.

Keep text simple as well. Don't use bevel or things like this, even shadows are usually not necessary. Vary font sizes. Use 2 different fonts at most for a single chart. Vary headline and text fonts(sans serif and serif). Add something to loosen everything up - like some splattering or texture indications in corners.

I'm not a graphic designer either, this is just some stuff I've picked up along and that works for me.
You can learn quite a lot from adverts in magazines or from posters.
Eleazar might have some useful tips, if he is around.

Quote:
Also, I don't know how much further I should go with these concepts

It would be nice to see at least one of the ships shown at a larger scale. Otherwise I'll just come up with my own decisions about detail work(Your chance to prevent me muck around!).


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 03, 2008 8:31 pm 
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These were supposed to be that, but apparently I have a habit of working very, very small :roll: . I was thinking that might be a good thing, to allow some freedom of expression on your part, because it might be too boring to do a concept without adding your own taint/signature/marker to it along the way to make it worth your while.

The inspiring idea is there, and that's what matters most to me. What you come up with might also be intriguing and delightful, or it might piss me off. Only one way to find out, yes?


edit:
Just want the concept art to come to a logical conclusion I guess.


Last edited by Josh on Thu Jul 03, 2008 8:42 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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