Chato default focus

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mem359
Dyson Forest
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Chato default focus

#1 Post by mem359 »

Shouldn't the Chato default focus (for a new colony) be Research, instead of industry?

The Humans do this, and they don't even have the racial Great Research.

dbenage-cx
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Re: Chato default focus

#2 Post by dbenage-cx »

Industry is the default unless the species has a preferred focus, which grants a happiness bonus where they use it.
Etty have a research preference but are no better than average.

The pedia will show if a species has a preferred focus, just before listing the environment preferences.
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defaultuser
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Re: Chato default focus

#3 Post by defaultuser »

The question is why, if Chato are so good at research, isn't that the default focus? I seem to remember that it has to do with the starting numbers of the game. You'll start with a large number at your homeworld of whatever your preferred focus is. I think they didn't want Chato to start out with a large research number. Or I could be misremembering totally.

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MatGB
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Re: Chato default focus

#4 Post by MatGB »

Reason they don't have a preferred focus: no one's coded it

Generally in this game when something's obviously in need of doing it's because no one's had time and/or remembered when they did have time.

For what it's worth, I think Chato should be default research, and quite a few others need to have preferences set for the happiness bonus if nothing else, including a few with preferences for industry. I'm actually tempted to give Cray an Industry preference ("happy, industrious robots") because it's against traits.

Trith and Eaxaw need them. Which makes doing it more work than simply setting Chato as it should be done at once.

So, y'know, if someone wants to list all the species without a preference and suggest one (Raargh could have Defence just to be really annoying) I'll happily code it up, or if someone else codes it and makes a PR on Github I'll merge it if there aren't problems.
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dbenage-cx
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Re: Chato default focus

#5 Post by dbenage-cx »

Species (Industry/Research): Focus

Playable
  • Chato (Avg/Great)
    :
  • Cray (Bad/Good)
    :
  • Eaxaw (Avg/Avg)
    :
  • Egassem (Ult/Bad)
    :
  • Etty (Bad/Avg)
    : Research
  • George (Good/Bad)
    :
  • Gysache (Good/Great)
    :
  • Human (Avg/Avg)
    : Research
  • Laenfa (Avg/Bad)
    :
  • Trith (Avg/Avg)
    :
  • Ugmores (Good/Bad)
    :
Native
  • Abadonni (Avg/Bad):
    :
  • Acirema (Great/Good/NoColony):
    :
  • Beigegoo (Great/NONE/NoColony/NoShips):
    :
  • Cynos (NONE/Avg/NoColony):
    :
  • Derthrean (Avg/Avg):
    :
  • Fiftyseven (NONE/Ult/NoColony/NoShip):
    :
  • Furthest (Avg/Bad/NoShip):
    :
  • Gisgufgthrim (Bad/Good/NoShip):
    :
  • Happy (Bad/Good):
    :
  • Hhhoh (Avg/Avg):
    :
  • Kobuntura (Great/Avg):
    :
  • Muursh (Avg/Bad):
    :
  • Nymnmn (NONE/Avg/NoColony/NoShip):
    :
  • Ourbools (Bad/Avg/NoColony/NoShip):
    :
  • Phinnert (Avg/NONE/NoShip):
    :
  • Raagh (Bad/NONE/NoColony/NoShip):
    :
  • Scylior (Avg/Great)
    : Research
  • Setinon (Bad/Avg):
    :
  • Silexian (NONE/Bad/NoShip):
    :
  • Taeghirus (Good/Avg):
    :
  • Trenchers (Good/NONE/NoColony/NoShip):
    :
  • Volp (Avg/Avg/NoColony/NoShip):
    :
  • Hiddengardener (NONE/NONE/Only Growth or an advanced focus'):
    :
Other:
  • Banforo (Good/Avg):
    :
  • Exobot (Avg/Bad):
    :
  • Experimentor (NONE/Ult/NoColony/NoShip):
    :
  • Kilandow (Avg/Great):
    :
  • Misiorla (Bad/Bad):
    :
  • Supertest:
    :
I don't mind making a PR, but with only 3 populated it would likely change quite a few times if not settled on.

Not all of these need a focus related to their proficiency (Might be the best fighter, doesn't mean you prefer to do it)
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MatGB
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Re: Chato default focus

#6 Post by MatGB »

dbenage-cx wrote:Species (Industry/Research): Focus

Playable
  • Chato (Avg/Great)
    :
Research
[*]Cray (Bad/Good)
:
I said above Industry, but the actual tagline is "Cheerful enthusiastic robots" and it clearly says they're bad at building things, so research.
[*]Eaxaw (Avg/Avg)
:
They need one, and it needs to not be the same as the Trith, so I'm going to plump for Industry
[*]Egassem (Ult/Bad)
:
Industry
[*]Etty (Bad/Avg)
: Research
[*]George (Good/Bad)
:
Industry
[*]Gysache (Good/Great)
:
None. They're still really good despite balancing efforts and they're all rounders anyway.
[*]Human (Avg/Avg)
: Research
[*]Laenfa (Avg/Bad)
:
Industry
[*]Trith (Avg/Avg)
:
Research, it suits their description better.
[*]Ugmores (Good/Bad)
:[/list]
Industry (these guys aren't playable, they're natives, but still industry)
Native
  • Abadonni (Avg/Bad):
    :
They're slaves to a sentient computer that doesn't like them thinking. Industry
[*]Acirema (Great/Good/NoColony):
:
None
[*]Beigegoo (Great/NONE/NoColony/NoShips):
:
Industry
[*]Cynos (NONE/Avg/NoColony):
:
Either Research or None
[*]Derthrean (Avg/Avg):
:
Research, pacifistic balloons
[*]Fiftyseven (NONE/Ult/NoColony/NoShip):
:
Research, their description says it makes them happy
[*]Furthest (Avg/Bad/NoShip):
:
Don't know, if there was still a stealth focus then that. Anyone have an opinion?
[*]Gisgufgthrim (Bad/Good/NoShip):
:
Research, purely for gameplay preference
[*]Happy (Bad/Good):
:
Happybirthday already have Research and I think this should stay until we introduce a new focus for trade/influence
[*]Hhhoh (Avg/Avg):
:
They're not keen on change. Industry
[*]Kobuntura (Great/Avg):
:
They seek the knowledge of the Precursors. Research
[*]Muursh (Avg/Bad):
:
Hmm, I wrote their description and it's no help at all. For balance, I think none, for flavour veering towards Industry. Opinions? They're overpowered, no happiness boost would tone them down if/when we introduce happiness requirements for shipbuilding.
[*]Nymnmn (NONE/Avg/NoColony/NoShip):
:
I don't think they care. None
[*]Ourbools (Bad/Avg/NoColony/NoShip):
:
Research
[*]Phinnert (Avg/NONE/NoShip):
:
Industry
[*]Raagh (Bad/NONE/NoColony/NoShip):
:
Defence, just because
[*]Scylior (Avg/Great)
: Research
No change
[*]Setinon (Bad/Avg):
:
Defence
[*]Silexian (NONE/Bad/NoShip):
:
Logistics, if that's possible, otherwise Research
[*]Taeghirus (Good/Avg):
:
Industry, they like workign together
[*]Trenchers (Good/NONE/NoColony/NoShip):
:
None, they don't care for anything other than carving (and they need an expanded entry text, volunteers?)
[*]Volp (Avg/Avg/NoColony/NoShip):
:
Again, Logistics if possible, if not Defence (because they're a really good early game grab and it'll tone them down a bit)
[*]Hiddengardener (NONE/NONE/Only Growth or an advanced focus'):
:[/list]
They don't exist in game as they're commented out, and I think that's really a permanent thing.
Other:
  • Banforo (Good/Avg):
    :
Industry
[*]Exobot (Avg/Bad):
:
None
[*]Experimentor (NONE/Ult/NoColony/NoShip):
:
Research, not that it matters
[*]Kilandow (Avg/Great):
:
Research, obvs
[*]Misiorla (Bad/Bad):
:
Logistics, because they all want to fly, even merchant ships
[*]Supertest:
:[/list]
Irrelevent, None because they're already OTT.
I don't mind making a PR, but with only 3 populated it would likely change quite a few times if not settled on.
If the groundwork is done then future balancing tweaks are easier.
Not all of these need a focus related to their proficiency (Might be the best fighter, doesn't mean you prefer to do it)
Agree. And for balance some don't want/need a preference at all.
Mat Bowles

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dbenage-cx
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Re: Chato default focus

#7 Post by dbenage-cx »

Not certain if Logistics would pose a problem for AI (haven't looked into it yet).
[hide]

Code: Select all

class AIFocusType(object):
    FOCUS_PROTECTION = "FOCUS_PROTECTION"
    FOCUS_GROWTH = "FOCUS_GROWTH"
    FOCUS_INDUSTRY = "FOCUS_INDUSTRY"
    FOCUS_RESEARCH = "FOCUS_RESEARCH"
    FOCUS_TRADE = "FOCUS_TRADE"
    FOCUS_CONSTRUCTION = "FOCUS_CONSTRUCTION"
    FOCUS_MINING = "FOCUS_MINING"
    FOCUS_HEAVY_MINING = "FOCUS_HEAVY_MINING"
[/hide]
Left Misiola with none.
Silexian with Research.
Volp with Protection.

Gave Furthest growth. With the constant paranoia, figured they would be happiest after security (but not providing it).

Left Mu Ursh with none, favoring balance.
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MatGB
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Re: Chato default focus

#8 Post by MatGB »

Bumping this as it's been suggested the following be changed in Kobuntura should prefer the industry focus by l29ah · Pull Request #1332 · freeorion/freeorion
MatGB wrote:
dbenage-cx wrote:Species (Industry/Research): Focus

[*]Kobuntura (Great/Avg):
:
They seek the knowledge of the Precursors. Research
I want it to stay Research because a) Flavour, b) Balance (they're still overpowered, that's partially a Self Sustaining problem tho) and c) I want some species to prefer doing things they're not as good at, just because you're better than others as a species doesn't mean it's what your society is meant to do, the Kobuntura specifically want to find the Precursors.

If the consensus is it should change I don't strongly object, but my preference is the status quo and as a reversal of a deliberate decision REALLY doesn't belong in a PR I'm bringing it here.
Mat Bowles

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Vezzra
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Re: Chato default focus

#9 Post by Vezzra »

The complaint is that it's a bit annoying/micromanagy to have to switch a new (or newly conquered) Kobuntura colony to industry. The problem here is that currently it's still a no-brainer to do so, so the idea to switch them back to have industry as preferred focus makes some sense (until we add the mechanics which will make that no longer a no-brainer of course).

However, I still slightly lean toward keeping research as preferred focus nonetheless. For the reasons Mat cited it's an interesting choice we'll want to switch back to anyway, and if we switch to industry now we'll have to remember to switch back once happiness becomes more important. That's hopefully going to happen soon enough, so the very moderate annoyance of having to switch the Kobuntura's focus isn't big enough an issue to warrant the extra work and the risk of forgetting to switch the preferred focus back, IMO.

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Oberlus
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Re: Chato default focus

#10 Post by Oberlus »

I'm bumping this because it's been more than 3 years now waiting for the "Kobuntura preferred focus: industry" to be a matter of balance, which is not since Happiness and Influence are still way ahead.

It is annoying to have to switch the focus on every colony.
MatGB or someone else said at some point that it is not that problematic if you can do it from the Objects window. That is true when you want to switch focus many planets at once. When you want to do it for just one (and another one on the next turn, etc.) it is boring micromanagement.

Sincerely, I don't understand the opposition of most devs to make Kobuntura start at industry focus while we don't have influence in place. It would be so quick to accept the PR that makes them prefer industry and revoke it once influence is a thing. And meanwhile the flavour and balance arguments of MatGB are just not there.
Also, once we have influence in place most species (playable and native) will need a rework. Seriously, I see no reason to keep Kobuntura as annoying as they are right now.

However there could be a middle-ground solution:
dbenage-cx wrote: Sun Feb 21, 2016 4:24 amIndustry is the default unless the species has a preferred focus, which grants a happiness bonus where they use it.
If this is still a thing (I think so), can we just remove the preferred focus from Kobuntura?
That way they don't get that happiness boost from industry focus and players don't have to worry about the annoying focus switching on every new Kobuntura planet.


Related thread

Related PR#1332

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Geoff the Medio
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Re: Chato default focus

#11 Post by Geoff the Medio »

I merged that pull request, as indeed "soon" seemingly isn't.

If some balance adjustment or AI change needs to be made, then another pull request to do that would be good...

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Oberlus
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Re: Chato default focus

#12 Post by Oberlus »

Geoff the Medio wrote: Sun Apr 12, 2020 10:27 amI merged that pull request, as indeed "soon" seemingly isn't.
TYVM!

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