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PostPosted: Thu Apr 05, 2018 10:22 am 
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Vacuum Dragon
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Playing test version compiled from master (build 2018-04-02.02f4a84).

I'm in a game as human vs 9 AIs, two of them are Sly.

One of the Sly have completely overcome its no-supply range by turn 51 (maybe earlier, I wasn't paying attention to the map for the last 10 turns).

It has this techs researched:
Code:
Turn02   The Physical Brain
Turn05   Algorithmic Elegance
Turn06   Planetary Ecology
Turn09   Subterranean Habitation
Turn13   Nascent Artificial Intelligence
Turn14   Mass Driver 2
Turn16   Planetary Bunker Complex
Turn16   Fighters and Launch Bays
Turn17   Robotic Production
Turn20   Military Robotic Control
Turn21   Orbital Construction
Turn23   Mass Driver 3
Turn25   Mass Driver 4
Turn28   Microgravity Industry
Turn34   Symbiotic Biology
Turn36   Zortrium Armor Plating
Turn38   Planetary Defense Network 1
Turn40   Spatial Flux Drive
Turn42   Fusion Generation
Turn47   Orbital Generation

So it does not have exobots yet (I do, haha).

Yet it has this nice supply reach on turn 51:
Attachment:
Sly_with_nice_supply_turn51.png
Sly_with_nice_supply_turn51.png [ 432.93 KiB | Viewed 334 times ]

I find quite interesting how well is performing this Sly AI in this game. Not only regarding normal (non-stealthy) expansion, but also it has the best PP/turn and it's only slightly below the best RP/turn among all empires.

Alkes is the AI's homeworld (last seen turn 20). Rin alpha (last seen turn 17) only had those Ancient Guardians, so AI got no natives from there.
I assume ('cause I'm not enabling Super Testers) that it got some natives from the unexplored systems nearby Alkes.

But, I've checked the "Planets Invaded" Graph and only two empires (that I have not met yet; purple and blue, none of the Sly, which are yellow and ochre). Unless this graph does not show native planets invaded, this AI must have Sly population only. And it does not have Architectural Monofilaments (so no Space Elevators).

So, how can it have that nice supply reach?

I attach save game and all logs for this turn, in case @devs find this something interesting to look at.


Attachments:
FO_AI_Sly_nice_supply_turn51_AI6-9_logs.zip [2.21 MiB]
Downloaded 10 times
FO_AI_Sly_nice_supply_turn51_AI1-5_logs.zip [2.64 MiB]
Downloaded 10 times
FO_AI_Sly_nice_supply_turn51_save&fo_logs.zip [1.24 MiB]
Downloaded 13 times
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 05, 2018 11:41 am 
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Vacuum Dragon
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Oberlus wrote:
Unless this graph does not show native planets invaded
I've checked in-game that this graph does seem to note native invaded planets (dark blue player, an Etty, invaded one Silexian planet next to my homeworld and next turn its graph showed its first invaded planet as well as a discrete increase in its "Colonies" graph; I then invaded that planet and saw the corresponding decrease in both graphs for that AI player).


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 05, 2018 12:00 pm 
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Space Dragon

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Posts: 437
Well if thats a Sly-only empire, a hidden gas giant in Rin alpha would even not work after moving the palace there. (orb.con +1, GG -1, bad supply -1, imperial palace +2). So the only conclusion is there are hidden Sly systems everywhere with a supply of 1 because of lots of imperial palaces uummm.

Or there is a dying Sly population on Rin alpha V with a palace (orb.con+1, bad supply -1, palace +2) and some other dying sly in e.g. alkaid beta.

Or there is a native species with >=5 supply planet beyond your detection range; thats really easy
Orb.Con +1 , Tiny planet +2, Imperial palace +2, Great supply +2
:D

If i look at the scripts actually there is no decrease for supply anymore (BUUUG!). So moving the palace should give some lasting impression. But i dont think the AI does move the palace.

This tells me on one hand I should relocate my palace more often for exploration and also that probably there is some confusion..

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 05, 2018 3:16 pm 
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Vacuum Dragon
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Ophiuchus wrote:
a hidden gas giant in Rin alpha[...]
From the explored systems in the screenshot, only Alkes (the homeworld) and Alkaid beta had GGs (two, one already colonised by the Sly when my scout got there in turn 19). Alkaid alpha and Rin alpha had no GGs.

But I think I got it. The Sly has outposted (or colonised, died out and revert to outpost) Rin alpha IV. Check the screenshot at turn 68:
Attachment:
Sly_nice_supply_68.png
Sly_nice_supply_68.png [ 410.17 KiB | Viewed 319 times ]

Rin alpha IV has pop 0 and a supply of 2, constant over time. The "Predicted Next Turn 1.00" information is false or buggy, because what you can see in that screen stays the same for turn 69 and following.

I guess that's a bug in there? I mean, supply should be 2 and predicted next turn 2, or 1 and predicted next turn 1, right? No idea where that "Unknown +1.00" comes from.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 05, 2018 4:05 pm 
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AI Lead, Programmer
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Oberlus wrote:
Rin alpha IV has pop 0 and a supply of 2, constant over time. The "Predicted Next Turn 1.00" information is false or buggy, because what you can see in that screen stays the same for turn 69 and following.

I guess that's a bug in there? I mean, supply should be 2 and predicted next turn 2, or 1 and predicted next turn 1, right? No idea where that "Unknown +1.00" comes from.
I think I have this partly figured out, but only partly. My best guess would be that the Predicted value being off is probably because it doesn't know the source of that Unknown +1, and so it doesn't know to include it in the prediction (the current meter value +2 is provided by the server). But the initial predicted value provided by the server probably should have been correct and so this would only be thrown off it the client were updating it, which it doesn't seem to me like it really should in this situation.

Also, the "Unknown +1.00" comes from the small planet supply adjustment (which in turn is specified in SHP_GAL_EXPLO.focs.txt). It's strange that the client can know the source of the Orbital Construction bonus but not know the SHP_GAL_EXPLO bonus-- it's not like the client does not know it's a small planet. And then if I either (i) research sensors and park a scout near their Capital, or (ii) build a supertesters takeover at your Capital to get the detection boost, then all of a sudden my client realizes that this extra +1 is from the SHP_GAL_EXPLO small planet adjustment. It should not normally take visibility of the enemy Capital in order for the client to properly process their techs (as it did not for their Orbital Construction tech). So this aspect does seem a bit buggy to me. If you would, please make an Issue with this savegame and pic

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 05, 2018 5:08 pm 
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Vacuum Dragon
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Posts: 530
Dilvish wrote:
please make an Issue with this savegame and pic
Done. Issue 2064. Not sure if I made the right description, tho.


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PostPosted: Wed May 02, 2018 10:47 pm 
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AI Lead, Programmer
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It's fixed now, at least this particular problem, which stemmed from superfluous activation clauses citing objects for which the human client did not have sufficient visibility and so it could not determine that the tech was applying. There is still some similar cleanup needed elsewhere, which I discussed in the Github Issue.

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