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 Post subject: Starlane collapser?
PostPosted: Sun May 13, 2018 3:51 pm 
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Krill Swarm
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Joined: Fri Aug 30, 2013 3:41 pm
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Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada area
I am using FO v 0.4.7 [ Build 2017-04-24.60d06dc] MVC2015.

I have Starlane generators (Nexus, Bore) in the production queue, but if I can build a new starlane, I can also see strategic value in being able to remove an existing starlane. I think the Experimenters already have something like this. I propose a new tech and building: Starlane Destabilization and Starlane Collapser.

Tech: Starlane Destabilization
Unlocked by: Spacial Distortion
Research Points: 4.5K
Research Time: 12 turns

The ability to manipulate the environment of a starlane to hamper the movement of ships and creatures can be expanded to destabilize a starlane to such a degree as to cause it to completely collapse and become unusable for moving between systems. Other technology can be used to rebuild a new starlane, but that will take time.

Building: Starlane Collapser
Production Cost:360
Production Time:8 turns
Unlocked by: Starlane Destabilization

Building one of these on a planet you own, but not an outpost, makes the Starlane Collapse focus available. Switching two planets on the opposite ends of starlane to the Starlane Collapse focus will cause the starlane between them to undergo so much stress as to destroy it after a full round of the massive manipulations of this planetary focus. The strain on the two Starlane Collapser buildings burns them both out and they are both damaged beyond repair from the final feedback of the dying starlane; the buildings are destroyed along with the starlane. Otherwise the two systems at each end are unharmed, other than having some new transportation difficulties. Any ships or creatures in the starlane at the time of the collapse will be hopelessly lost in normal space and it will take generations for those ships to get to a habitable system, long after the supplies have run out. When the Stargate Collapser buildings are destroyed (along with the starlane), the focus of the two worlds reverts to the preferred foci for the inhabiting species.

If a planet is set to collapse a starlane, but planets on the ends of two adjoining starlanes are also set to the Starlane Collapse focus, only one of the starlanes will collapse, unless there is another planet in the first system also set to the Stargate Collapse focus.


You can still use a Starlane Bore or Nexus to rebuild the starlane, but that is another story.


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 Post subject: Re: Starlane collapser?
PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2018 7:08 am 
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Release Manager, Design
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Joined: Wed Nov 16, 2011 12:56 pm
Posts: 4488
Location: Sol III
I have opened a corresponding feature request issue on gitub:

https://github.com/freeorion/freeorion/issues/2105


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 Post subject: Re: Starlane collapser?
PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2018 9:13 am 
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Space Floater

Joined: Thu Oct 06, 2016 3:19 pm
Posts: 36
I think the requirement of both of the planets to be populated is too strict.

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 Post subject: Re: Starlane collapser?
PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2018 9:47 am 
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Vacuum Dragon
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Joined: Mon Apr 10, 2017 4:25 pm
Posts: 530
Agree with L29Ah.

I think the idea is to isolate you from your enemies, not to divide apart your own supply chain.

Make one of the ends to require only a building (on an outpost).


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 Post subject: Re: Starlane collapser?
PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2018 12:26 pm 
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Krill Swarm
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Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada area
L29Ah wrote:
I think the requirement of both of the planets to be populated is too strict.

I was trying to think of how this would be controlled, and thought of using the planetary focus, which does not appear for outposts. You can control which starlane goes bye-bye by setting the focus at each end. Is there a better suggestion on controlling when and which lanes should be removed?

I guess the destabilization could start as soon as the building has been built at each end. This would allow it to be built on outposts and not have to worry about flipping the focus back after destroying a starlane. Any thoughts?


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 Post subject: Re: Starlane collapser?
PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2018 1:43 pm 
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Vacuum Dragon
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Posts: 530
Probably better (IMHO) to use buildings on both ends and not add a new focus type.
So when a Starlane Collapser is built in a planet, it checks if there is another Starlane Collapser in neighbouring systems, pairs with the older of them, deletes the starlane connecting both buildings and scraps both buildings.


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 Post subject: Re: Starlane collapser?
PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2018 5:34 am 
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Space Floater

Joined: Sat Jul 01, 2017 4:54 am
Posts: 34
If you are looking to model it after an existing in game targeting method:
Look at the 'planetary starlane drive'.

I would prefer that level of cost implied by just copy and replace of that behaviour then OP suggestion.
For sake of consistency it should have similar costs to starlane creation. Which may mean creation costs rise.
Making a starlane unusable should be cheaper then creating one in my opinion (entropy),


The only other reservation I would have is that I think it was said somewhere that starlane destruction would be vetoed until the AI could create starlanes.
Because for sure you could totally shut down an AI trapping it in a corner at this point.


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 Post subject: Re: Starlane collapser?
PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2018 2:18 pm 
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Release Manager, Design
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Location: Sol III
Gault.Drakkor wrote:
The only other reservation I would have is that I think it was said somewhere that starlane destruction would be vetoed until the AI could create starlanes.
Because for sure you could totally shut down an AI trapping it in a corner at this point.
Seconded!

Also: having to build the Starlane Collapser on both ends of a starlane is good because it makes it more difficult to cut your own empire off completely. IMO that concept should be extended to the starlane creating mechanics. Prevents both mechanics (starlane creation and removal) from being too powerful.


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 Post subject: Re: Starlane collapser?
PostPosted: Sat May 19, 2018 8:59 am 
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Space Squid

Joined: Tue May 16, 2017 3:42 am
Posts: 79
Location: Catalonia, France, Europe, Earth, Sol, Orion Arm, Milky Way, Virgo Cluster
By the way, I'd like to see a "Starlane Bore Beacon" (as both a a building and a core ship part) that would let you fine control the way Starlane Bore works.

I mean, if an SBB is present in a legit (bore-able) spot when a Starlane Bore is produced, then link to it rather than to the nearest spot. If two or more SBBs, then link to the closer one.


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 Post subject: Re: Starlane collapser?
PostPosted: Sat May 19, 2018 10:27 am 
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Space Dragon
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Joined: Fri Jul 29, 2016 10:12 am
Posts: 255
Jaumito wrote:
By the way, I'd like to see a "Starlane Bore Beacon" (as both a a building and a core ship part) that would let you fine control the way Starlane Bore works


Interesting idea, but I've found most of the time I'm trying to create a SB I can't actually reach the system I want to connect to.


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 Post subject: Re: Starlane collapser?
PostPosted: Sat May 19, 2018 12:36 pm 
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Space Squid

Joined: Tue May 16, 2017 3:42 am
Posts: 79
Location: Catalonia, France, Europe, Earth, Sol, Orion Arm, Milky Way, Virgo Cluster
EricF wrote:
Interesting idea, but I've found most of the time I'm trying to create a SB I can't actually reach the system I want to connect to.

Heh. I made myself a paper ruler just to make sure this never happens to me 8)

Sometimes you have to produce several bores to get what you want. And sometimes you have to produce bores elsewhere first to "block" access to systems you don't want to "bore to". You get used to this, but it's tedious. Hence my proposal.


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 Post subject: Re: Starlane collapser?
PostPosted: Sat May 19, 2018 2:24 pm 
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Space Dragon
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Joined: Fri Jul 29, 2016 10:12 am
Posts: 255
I think you misunderstood me. Sorry for not being clearer.
What I meant was that I wouldn't be able to use a beacon ship because the system I was trying to bore to was unreachable to me by any of my ships. Unreachable because behind enemy lines, not because of distance.


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