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PostPosted: Wed Jun 27, 2018 8:20 am 
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Krill Swarm

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I think if the Nova Bomb resulted in a Nebula - this would be a good addition to the game for the following reasons:

- It would be easy to implement
- It would slightly lessen the impact of the nova bomb if it were used multiple times in the same game, allowing some regeneration of the galaxy
- It would create a new usage for the nova bomb, you could release it in an empty system to eventually create a new star and planets to colonise
- It would justify the expense somewhat of building a nova
- It would allow limited late game colonisation.

Maybe there are some balance issues I have missed here, but I don't see it would affect balance so much, it takes a long time (12 turns?) to build a nova bomb, and they are expensive.

Thoughts?


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 27, 2018 12:21 pm 
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Krill Swarm

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Sorry, this should have been posted elsewhere, such as in other game design.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 27, 2018 1:10 pm 
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Space Kraken

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rallytoshelly wrote:
Thoughts?

None other than: pretty cool idea!


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 27, 2018 1:46 pm 
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Vacuum Dragon
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rallytoshelly wrote:
It would create a new usage for the nova bomb, you could release it in an empty system to eventually create a new star and planets to colonise
Only for systems with at least a star, so that empty systems remain empty, right?


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 27, 2018 2:06 pm 
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Krill Swarm

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Oberlus wrote:
rallytoshelly wrote:
It would create a new usage for the nova bomb, you could release it in an empty system to eventually create a new star and planets to colonise
Only for systems with at least a star, so that empty systems remain empty, right?


Why not all systems? It would be easier than using starlane drives to populate empty systems, but would take longer, and would provide a payoff for bombing an empty system other than removing fleets...


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 27, 2018 4:07 pm 
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Vacuum Dragon
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rallytoshelly wrote:
Why not all systems?
Hmmm... My depiction of the nova bomb is that of a mechanism that trigger a massive, instantaneous fusion event in a system, first collapsing it into a small point and then making it to explode. The resulting nebula would be the debris of the explossion, composed of the tiny bits of the star, planets and/or asteroids that were on the system before the explosion.
So I don't like the idea of initiating a nova event out of "empty" space and get enough newly generated matter to build a complete star system. But that is realism talking here, so can be ignored.
What I see game-wise that I don't like is that it removes for late game the presence of hard-to-defend systems (those without systems), probably a minor issue, and also I don't like that I would be compelled to fill every empty system and do more Settlers of Catan and less Risk.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 27, 2018 5:15 pm 
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Oberlus wrote:
My depiction of the nova bomb is that of a mechanism that trigger a massive, instantaneous fusion event in a system, first collapsing it into a small point and then making it to explode. The resulting nebula would be the debris of the explossion, composed of the tiny bits of the star, planets and/or asteroids that were on the system before the explosion.
So I don't like the idea of initiating a nova event out of "empty" space and get enough newly generated matter to build a complete star system. But that is realism talking here, so can be ignored.
The "realism" argument shouldn't keep us from adding a game element that allows for the creation of a nebula "ex nihilo" (so to speak ;)), if we are so inclined (personally I'm not). But the fluff explanation should make at least basic sense (otherwise, why bother with fluff explanations at all?). So, either create a separate thing that can do this, or rename the Nova Bomb and change the fluff explanation for it.

A "Nova Bomb" which is supposed to destroy a star (and the orbiting planets) by making that star go nova can't work on an empty system. That would just be plain silly. ;)
Quote:
What I see game-wise that I don't like is that it removes for late game the presence of hard-to-defend systems (those without systems), probably a minor issue, and also I don't like that I would be compelled to fill every empty system and do more Settlers of Catan and less Risk.
This. I don't think it should be possible to basically be able to create stars and planets in all the empty systems. They are an essential element on the map.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 27, 2018 5:38 pm 
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Krill Swarm

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Vezzra wrote:
Oberlus wrote:
What I see game-wise that I don't like is that it removes for late game the presence of hard-to-defend systems (those without systems), probably a minor issue, and also I don't like that I would be compelled to fill every empty system and do more Settlers of Catan and less Risk.
This. I don't think it should be possible to basically be able to create stars and planets in all the empty systems. They are an essential element on the map.


Agreed. The way I suggested it could radically change the game (whoops) by making it almost mandatory to fill empty space with new systems via nova bomb. The player who uses this as a strategy would have everyone else as a disadvantage, so essentially we would all have to be playing Settlers of Catan. That being said, there is already a mechanism for moving planets into new systems, possibly the way to level it would be to allow the nova bomb to create a nebula if there is a star or a planet in the system, so if a player wishes to create a new star from empty space, she could use the planetary starlane drive to first push a 'spare' planet into the system before detonating the nova bomb? This would make the process much more strategic, and there is always the chance she could form a new star without planets, and lose the initial planet. This would make the game more interesting for people that want to do that sort of thing, without making it so easy to spawn new systems that the idea takes over the game, also, don't forget that a nebula takes a long time to crystallise - so it wouldn't be a massive advantage in any case, and the whole process isn't that micro-managementy compared to dealing with planetary specials on growth focus, supply lines and resource stockpiles etc....

As far as realism goes, really, once you have a bomb that is so powerful that it can destroy a star system, and create a shockwave that goes for tens of lightyears, who knows what sort of effect that could have on matter, antimatter etc... It could be that this is exactly the way to form a nebula, even with empty space, nobody is going to check IRL for a long time, so... Who knows?


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 27, 2018 6:50 pm 
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Vacuum Dragon
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rallytoshelly wrote:
nova bomb to create a nebula if there is a star or a planet in the system, so if a player wishes to create a new star from empty space, she could use the planetary starlane drive to first push a 'spare' planet into the system before detonating the nova bomb?
Then the condition should be that there is a star.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 27, 2018 6:55 pm 
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rallytoshelly wrote:
That being said, there is already a mechanism for moving planets into new systems, possibly the way to level it would be to allow the nova bomb to create a nebula if there is a star or a planet in the system, so if a player wishes to create a new star from empty space, she could use the planetary starlane drive to first push a 'spare' planet into the system before detonating the nova bomb?
Sure, that's a reasonable possibility. I'd still introduce a separate tech and ship part for this although, makes it easier to create a believable fluff explanation.
Quote:
As far as realism goes, really, once you have a bomb that is so powerful that it can destroy a star system, and create a shockwave that goes for tens of lightyears, who knows what sort of effect that could have on matter, antimatter etc... It could be that this is exactly the way to form a nebula, even with empty space, nobody is going to check IRL for a long time, so... Who knows?
It's not that we can come up with some sort of insane explanation for a superweapon similar to the Nova Bomb that can create a nebula apparently from nothing. It just doesn't fit with the fluff explanation of the Nova Bomb, which, IIRC, explicitely states that it creates it's devastating star system destroying explosion by making the star go nova. Which of course requires a star to be present that the bomb can make go nova.

If you want the bomb to be able to create such an explosion in an empty star system, you need to come up with an explanation that doesn't require a star to be present for the process. Otherwise the explanation is a bit silly... :wink: That's all I'm saying.


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 28, 2018 9:03 am 
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Vacuum Dragon
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For the original suggestion of a system creator on empty system, inspired by the mention to antimatter:

Name: Singularity Generator

Bone for the fluff: This a core part for flagships. Using a tremendous amount of energy, this device alters the spatio-temporal characteristics of a system (empty or not) to generate a singular event, generating directly from the Void a sheer amount of mater and antimatter, that will in turn create a "hypernova", wiping out any object that was previously in the system and leaving in place a nebula. The effects of the hypernova will be felt in nearby systems. Not to mention, the ships creating the hipernova will be wiped out too. The device requires constant input of energy during its loading time or the process must be started again.

Gameplay aspects: Since it is very powerful weapon, it should be stoppable in different ways: cutting resource supply, killing the ship with the device... So:
- It should require several turns to reach critical mass (give time to counteract), so it should be a project, and therefore an influence project which requires influence and PPs (energy).
- The project should require the presence of a particular ship core part (only late-game hulls can have it, could be required more than one part) in the system.
- The project could be innitiated via a button in the fleet with the special core part (like invading/colonising).
- If PP or influence income is interrupted, the project should either lose some progress (or all of it, depending on playtesting feedback).
- If the ships with the special core part move away or there is combat in the system, the project also loses progress (or resets it as per feedback).
- If any of the special ships in the system is destroyed, the progress should be reset to zero in any case.
- The singularity could initiate a bunch of galactic events like ion storms, and/or it could induce a new, temporal effect on the nearby planets, affecting directly one or more of industry, research, population, detection, stealth, supply... (e.g., all supply meters in 150 AU could get a -6 malus, recovering one per turn), and/or it could randomly collapse or create new starlanes.


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 28, 2018 10:26 am 
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Space Kraken

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Oberlus wrote:
Name: Singularity Generator

A device with such, ahem, "biblical" implications really should have something like "Genesis", "Armageddon", "Ragnarok" or "Apocalypse" in its name to reflect its nature. E.g., Genesis Bomb. (I'm aware that "generator" has the same etymology as "Genesis", but somehow it doen't have the same epic feel.)

Plus, there's the fact that we already have a "Singularity Generation" tech in the game.


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 28, 2018 11:31 am 
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Vacuum Dragon
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Genesis detonator?
Genesis brings in the biblical epicness and conveys the idea of creation, and detonator points out that it is a device and causes an explosion.

Jaumito wrote:
Plus, there's the fact that we already have a "Singularity Generation" tech in the game.
Doh!


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 28, 2018 5:25 pm 
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Krill Swarm

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I gave this a fair amount of thought, and....

Currently you can set off a nova bomb in a starless system which due to fluff is wrong, so...

How about

All nova bombs make nebulas
but
a nova bomb can only be set off in a starless system if encased in a solar hull!

Boom!


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 29, 2018 11:00 am 
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rallytoshelly wrote:
Currently you can set off a nova bomb in a starless system which due to fluff is wrong
I haven't been aware of that, and definitely consider this a bug.


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