Heh, well... so could any game if theyre willing to change enough of itZanzibar wrote:But it could be a game you like

Moderator: Oberlus
Heh, well... so could any game if theyre willing to change enough of itZanzibar wrote:But it could be a game you like
I suspect this is becaue they don't _seem_ to have that many techs.marhawkman wrote:Seconded. The basic idea is GREAT! But the implementation falls short. the randomization is more annoying than anything else
I am actually in the KP forums and have been for a couple of weeks. But I still dont' believe this game will ever become one I "like". The devs design choices just don't mesh with mine.Zanzibar wrote:But it could be a game you like
Just out of interest, How do you find it unmanageable? Is it too hard to select planets and fleets, too hard to find blinking enemies, too hard to work out which stars are the closest? I really like the 3-d strat map. Small rotations show you the relative positions of stars and adjusting the view and zooming in allows you to select close planets and fleets. It gets easier to use as you play more. Flatter maps like a spiral are better if the sphere/rift maps are too unpleasant.3D map renders the strategic game (paper thin though it is) virtually unmanageable. I wouldnt mind, but since all combat etc takes place at stars, the 3d map doesnt add any strategic depth at all.
The camera controls aren't intuitive. When I first played, I expected to be able to pan and was frustrated when I couldn't. However, I found that after playing a couple of games you get used to the controls, and the controls that are present (after the first patch) let you do everything you want to do. I think that 3-d combat along with the Newtonian ship motion would have made things very hard.Despite the utterly pointless 3d elsewhere in the game, space combat, the one part of the game that wouldve really benefitted from being in full 3D, takes place entirely on a 2D plane. Having said that, the player's control over their fleet is so appallingly cack-handed that its probably a good thing they stayed with 2D. Its as if, having worked on homeworld, they took every good idea that game had, along with every bit of good UI design, threw them in the bin, and then implemented what was left. WHY CANT I MOVE THE CAMERA AROUND? WHY?
They don't (?). AFAIK, ships with missiles will always auto-fire on enemies as soon as they enter sensor range. The exception is planet missiles which 'seek out' enemies; they can be fired without enemies being in sensor range. If you've researched the right tech, ships share sensor information.How come my ships start firing at enemy ships before i can see them on screen, and before they appear on the radar map? I take it the enemy ships are 'cheating' in the same way when i get hit by missiles and i cant see who shot them yet.
Yes, I don't understand why they did this. It would be better to take the money out the turn construction begins. Maybe they were worried about clueless players getting themselves into debt?If i want to queue up more than 1 turns worth of ships to build, i have to pay for them all now, and pay a bucketload of interest on the loan. Great. So i have to go round all of my production planets each turn and order 1 turns worth of ships, every turn. Its almost as if they were trying to make the game as unpleasant to play as possible, on purpose.
These are supposed to be improved in the next patch, but I suspect not enough to make you happy. At the moment they seem comparable to RTW loading times.Loading times. What is it doing?!?!?!?!?
I think multiplayer was high on the priority list, and it does work pretty well (as long as you don't mind occasional waits while other players are fighting battles). I think the poor gui is a result of a very small development team that didn't seek feedback from many other people before releasing the game.My guess at prioritisation of jobs on SotS:
Highest Priority
3D Graphics
Big explosions
Weapon Effects
Glowing things
Bump mapping
Multiplayer. It HAS to have multiplayer. Marketing said so.
Particle effects
Backstory
That flashy animated bit showing the company logo at the beginning
Website design
Tactics
Strategy
Marketing
Box design
Office christmas party
...
Gameplay controls
Presentation of useful information to the player
Lowest Priority
The 3d map. Hmm well it's basic idea is unmanageable, since a 2d map will always be better, easier to see and faster to use. Plus, it gets very annoying trying to find anything in that mess of stars. Your trying to find a ship as it travels along a starlane, but since it is 3d, there are other stars and starlanes directly behind or in front of the starlane you want to look at.grinningman wrote:Just out of interest, How do you find it unmanageable? Is it too hard to select planets and fleets, too hard to find blinking enemies, too hard to work out which stars are the closest? I really like the 3-d strat map. Small rotations show you the relative positions of stars and adjusting the view and zooming in allows you to select close planets and fleets. It gets easier to use as you play more. Flatter maps like a spiral are better if the sphere/rift maps are too unpleasant.3D map renders the strategic game (paper thin though it is) virtually unmanageable. I wouldnt mind, but since all combat etc takes place at stars, the 3d map doesnt add any strategic depth at all.
Actually, its nowhere near as easy and reliable as it could be.grinningman wrote:Is it too hard to select planets and fleets
No, but its far too easy to miss them. I shouldnt have spend most of my strategic game turn peering at the 3d map trying to see if any enemy fleets (or planet killers etc) are incoming - it should be obvious at a glance.too hard to find blinking enemies
Homeworld managed just fine, and was in fact much easier to control than SotS. And its not a newtonian model - theyve just added a bit of inertia to ship movement. Ships still have a maximum speed.I think that 3-d combat along with the Newtonian ship motion would have made things very hard.
If theyre inside sensor range, then they should appear on the sensor view, right?They don't (?). AFAIK, ships with missiles will always auto-fire on enemies as soon as they enter sensor range. The exception is planet missiles which 'seek out' enemies; they can be fired without enemies being in sensor range. If you've researched the right tech, ships share sensor information.
Its my defensive ships firing on incoming enemy ships. The enemy ships dont appear on the sensor screen until my first barrage of ship missiles is halfway there. This happens every time, until i research deep scan, at which point sensor range > missile range anyway.I don't know how to explain your example of your ships firing on defence platforms that were out of sensor range. As far as I know this isn't possible :-/
Fair enough.Playing the game just becomes too much like hard work. Its a chore, and i dont actually think the rewards are enough to justify the work.
Yeah, not strictly speaking Newtonian. But it has inertia, which Homeworld didn't have. They devs decided to include this along with component targeting and ship sections that can be individually destroyed. I think you'd argue that this was a bad decision and they should have just stuck with the Homeworld model. But given they had already decided to put in inertia, I think going 2-d was a good choice.Homeworld managed just fine, and was in fact much easier to control than SotS. And its not a newtonian model - theyve just added a bit of inertia to ship movement. Ships still have a maximum speed.I think that 3-d combat along with the Newtonian ship motion would have made things very hard.
Planet missiles are the exception to this rule. Call it a game balance thing.If theyre inside sensor range, then they should appear on the sensor view, right?They don't (?). AFAIK, ships with missiles will always auto-fire on enemies as soon as they enter sensor range. The exception is planet missiles which 'seek out' enemies; they can be fired without enemies being in sensor range. If you've researched the right tech, ships share sensor information.
But AFAIK it's not possible for your ships to fire missiles at targets unless they are on the sensor screen (= in sensor range, except for planet missiles). They fire as soon as the first red pixel appears on the sensor screen.Its my defensive ships firing on incoming enemy ships. The enemy ships dont appear on the sensor screen until my first barrage of ship missiles is halfway there. This happens every time, until i research deep scan, at which point sensor range > missile range anyway.I don't know how to explain your example of your ships firing on defence platforms that were out of sensor range. As far as I know this isn't possible :-/
Yes.grinningman wrote:Just out of interest, How do you find it unmanageable? Is it too hard to select planets and fleets, too hard to find blinking enemies, too hard to work out which stars are the closest?3D map renders the strategic game (paper thin though it is) virtually unmanageable. I wouldnt mind, but since all combat etc takes place at stars, the 3d map doesnt add any strategic depth at all.
I may be remembering incorrectly, but i couldve sworn HW had inertia. I certainly remember that if you hit a capital ship hard enough you could knock it backwards. Might not have been a complete inertia model though.grinningman wrote:But it has inertia, which Homeworld didn't have.
Theyre definitely firing before anything appears. Try it - play as humans, build Armour DE's loaded with missiles, then watch what happens when your planet is attacked. First volley definitely goes off before anything is visible.But AFAIK it's not possible for your ships to fire missiles at targets unless they are on the sensor screen (= in sensor range, except for planet missiles). They fire as soon as the first red pixel appears on the sensor screen.
I did try this, and they do sometimes fire before the enemy appears on the sensor screen of the ship you've selected, but everytime this was consistent with the enemy appearing on one of my ship's sensor screens (just not the one I had selected). Once you get the tech that lets you see the sensor data from all your ships simultaneously, this shouldn't happen anymore.Daveybaby wrote: Theyre definitely firing before anything appears. Try it - play as humans, build Armour DE's loaded with missiles, then watch what happens when your planet is attacked. First volley definitely goes off before anything is visible.