0.3 graphics summary / sidepanel revision

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Geoff the Medio
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Re: 0.3 graphics summary / sidepanel revision

#286 Post by Geoff the Medio » Sun Aug 29, 2010 8:56 pm

pd wrote:What's up with the difference in mockup and implementation?
I forgot your previous post existed.

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Re: 0.3 graphics summary / sidepanel revision

#287 Post by Bigjoe5 » Sun Aug 29, 2010 8:59 pm

Geoff the Medio wrote:
- below: detailed fleet summary (all fleets that are visible are listed)
- below: collapsed fleet summary (showing only the ship numbers of the fleets)
Why are these needed on the sidepanel, duplicating information in the fleets window?
I think it would be useful to have that information there, somewhere. I don't see a problem with duplicating information that's in the fleet window - if the information is available on the sidepanel, the player can easily access information on all forces in the same system without having multiple fleet windows open.
pd wrote:What's up with the difference in mockup and implementation?
For what it's worth, I sort of like the look of the implementation better, though I don't really feel that either are ideal solutions... To me, the solid-line-target-value-border looks kind of clunky.
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Re: 0.3 graphics summary / sidepanel revision

#288 Post by Geoff the Medio » Sun Aug 29, 2010 9:07 pm

Bigjoe5 wrote:I think it would be useful to have that information there, somewhere. I don't see a problem with duplicating information that's in the fleet window - if the information is available on the sidepanel, the player can easily access information on all forces in the same system without having multiple fleet windows open.
Why does the player need multiple fleet windows to see the forces in a system?
For what it's worth, I sort of like the look of the implementation better, though I don't really feel that either are ideal solutions... To me, the solid-line-target-value-border looks kind of clunky.
The current current implementation could be tweaked to remove the gaps between the bars and make the target values easier to see.
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No_Gap_meters.png
Meter bars without gaps between them.
No_Gap_meters.png (115.56 KiB) Viewed 1734 times

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Re: 0.3 graphics summary / sidepanel revision

#289 Post by Bigjoe5 » Sun Aug 29, 2010 9:09 pm

Geoff the Medio wrote:
Bigjoe5 wrote:I think it would be useful to have that information there, somewhere. I don't see a problem with duplicating information that's in the fleet window - if the information is available on the sidepanel, the player can easily access information on all forces in the same system without having multiple fleet windows open.
Why does the player need multiple fleet windows to see the forces in a system?
Doesn't a single fleet window only show fleets belonging to one empire? There may be numerous empires with forces in a single system, and it would be nice to have a single location to get an overview of all of them. The sidepanel of the system in question seems like the logical place.
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Re: 0.3 graphics summary / sidepanel revision

#290 Post by pd » Sun Aug 29, 2010 9:17 pm

Bigjoe5 wrote:
pd wrote:What's up with the difference in mockup and implementation?
For what it's worth, I sort of like the look of the implementation better, though I don't really feel that either are ideal solutions... To me, the solid-line-target-value-border looks kind of clunky.
Yes, because when working on such a small scale, all you can do is clunky work. The solid line border does the job and is much more visible then what we have at the moment. Closing the gab doensn't help much, because seeing the negative target meter is an issue of contrast.

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Re: 0.3 graphics summary / sidepanel revision

#291 Post by Geoff the Medio » Mon Aug 30, 2010 12:47 am

Bigjoe5 wrote:Doesn't a single fleet window only show fleets belonging to one empire?
Yes.
There may be numerous empires with forces in a single system, and it would be nice to have a single location to get an overview of all of them. The sidepanel of the system in question seems like the logical place.
The fleets window seems a more logical place to me... If desired, it could be modified to show multiple empires' fleets, possibly with a mode of rendering showing the much-reduced information (no name, no activity text, much smaller icon) as in the mockup.

That said, if someone wants to write a sidepanel variant of the fleets list, we can add it.
pd wrote:Closing the gab doensn't help much, because seeing the negative target meter is an issue of contrast.
There's not really much contrast between the coloured target meter outline and the current meter bar in your mockup when the target is less than current (which is the same problematic situation with the current implementation, I believe).

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Re: 0.3 graphics summary / sidepanel revision

#292 Post by pd » Mon Aug 30, 2010 9:07 pm

Geoff wrote:
pd wrote:Closing the gab doensn't help much, because seeing the negative target meter is an issue of contrast.
There's not really much contrast between the coloured target meter outline and the current meter bar in your mockup when the target is less than current (which is the same problematic situation with the current implementation, I believe).
It's enough, especially when using the previous meter shading, which is darker at the bottom compared to the current one.

I think it's clear which one is easier to read...
Image


Also, to clearify the contrast issue:
Image

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Re: 0.3 graphics summary / sidepanel revision

#293 Post by Geoff the Medio » Tue Aug 31, 2010 10:36 pm

I've tweaked how meter bars are rendered. See attached. It's not exactly as in the mockups, but hopefully addresses the main concerns...
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Meter_Bars_3786.png
Meter bars in SVN revision 3786
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Re: 0.3 graphics summary / sidepanel revision

#294 Post by MikkoM » Wed Sep 01, 2010 2:00 am

Geoff the Medio wrote: The fleets window seems a more logical place to me... If desired, it could be modified to show multiple empires' fleets, possibly with a mode of rendering showing the much-reduced information (no name, no activity text, much smaller icon) as in the mockup.
I also agree that the fleets window seems like a more logical place to show this information. There is already quite a lot of important information that is shown in the sidepanel, and if things will be constantly added to it, sooner or later it won`t be as clear and easy to use as it once was.

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Re: 0.3 graphics summary / sidepanel revision

#295 Post by Bigjoe5 » Wed Sep 01, 2010 3:47 am

Target meter still isn't very clear, IMO. Why not use the half-filled effect and the solid border, to maximize contrast between below- and above-target areas? Bright border vs. grey background gives much more contrast than either bright border vs. bright fill, or dark fill vs. grey background.
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Re: 0.3 graphics summary / sidepanel revision

#296 Post by pd » Wed Sep 01, 2010 7:03 pm

Geoff the Medio wrote:I've tweaked how meter bars are rendered. See attached. It's not exactly as in the mockups, but hopefully addresses the main concerns...
Looking good, nice and speedy work!
Bigjoe wrote:Target meter still isn't very clear, IMO. Why not use the half-filled effect and the solid border, to maximize contrast between below- and above-target areas? Bright border vs. grey background gives much more contrast than either bright border vs. bright fill, or dark fill vs. grey background.
I'm not sure I understand, could clarify? Perhaps using an image?


---
Regarding the new ability to resize the sidepanel:

Would it be possible to resize the sidepanel by dragging somewhere on the left side, instead of having to move the entire window to the left and and dragging from the bottom right corner?

I've marked some of the ideal positions to grab from.

Image

---
Regarding the planet rendering glitch:

There's a glitch on terran and ocean planets, where a specular is seemingly rendered at the wrong location(near the north pole). This has been there for ages. I did talk to tzlaine about it at some point and I think it had been fixed back then, but either the fix was incomplete or the glitch has come back for some reason. I'm not sure if you can do something about it, but thought you should know.


edit:

Also, repositioning the star(like in one of eleazar's mockups) and centering the system's production output make for a more organized feel.

Image

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Re: 0.3 graphics summary / sidepanel revision

#297 Post by Geoff the Medio » Wed Sep 01, 2010 7:51 pm

pd wrote:speedy work!
There was very little code change required.
Would it be possible to resize the sidepanel by dragging somewhere on the left side, instead of having to move the entire window to the left and and dragging from the bottom right corner?
Yes, but not easily.
There's a glitch on terran and ocean planets, where a specular is seemingly rendered at the wrong location(near the north pole).
Presumably you mean the polar whiteness in this:
Black_Terran_Polar_Blob.png
Terran planet with solid black surface texture.
Black_Terran_Polar_Blob.png (8.94 KiB) Viewed 1666 times
This has been there for ages. I did talk to tzlaine about it at some point and I think it had been fixed back then, but either the fix was incomplete or the glitch has come back for some reason. I'm not sure if you can do something about it, but thought you should know.
I'm aware of it, and it has been there for a long time, but as far as I know it's never been fixed. I'm not familiar enough with rendering issues to know how to fix it.

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Re: 0.3 graphics summary / sidepanel revision

#298 Post by Bigjoe5 » Wed Sep 01, 2010 9:36 pm

pd wrote:
Bigjoe wrote:Target meter still isn't very clear, IMO. Why not use the half-filled effect and the solid border, to maximize contrast between below- and above-target areas? Bright border vs. grey background gives much more contrast than either bright border vs. bright fill, or dark fill vs. grey background.
I'm not sure I understand, could clarify? Perhaps using an image?
Target_Meter_Contrast.gif
Edited image to fix displaced mining meter.
Target_Meter_Contrast.gif (8.96 KiB) Viewed 1657 times
I prefer this, as it not only avoids the clunky issues with solid-line borders overlapping the body of the meter, making it generally more elegant-looking, but uses both colouration and geometry to create stronger a stronger visual distinction between the areas above and below target.
pd wrote:Also, repositioning the star(like in one of eleazar's mockups) and centering the system's production output make for a more organized feel.
I feel like aligning the system's production output to the right would make it seem even more organized, because then it's aligned with the part of the side-panel that contains the star, and not sort of "sticking out" to the left, as it is currently, or when centered.
Last edited by Bigjoe5 on Wed Sep 01, 2010 10:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 0.3 graphics summary / sidepanel revision

#299 Post by pd » Wed Sep 01, 2010 9:49 pm

Bigjoe5 wrote:
pd wrote:Also, repositioning the star(like in one of eleazar's mockups) and centering the system's production output make for a more organized feel.
I feel like aligning the system's production output to the right would make it seem even more organized, because then it's aligned with the part of the side-panel that contains the star, and not sort of "sticking out" to the left, as it is currently, or when centered.
That was my initial idea as well, but then I guessed that it's intentionally "sticking out" to the left, so that the summary is still visible, even when the sidepanel is very slender.

Thanks for the mockup. It works ok. One problem I have with this "split meter" solution is that on growing and complete meters, there's wasted space for the target meter. The actual meters are thinner than they have to be.

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Re: 0.3 graphics summary / sidepanel revision

#300 Post by Geoff the Medio » Wed Sep 01, 2010 10:01 pm

pd wrote:
Bigjoe5 wrote:I feel like aligning the system's production output to the right [would be good]
...I guessed that it's intentionally "sticking out" to the left, so that the summary is still visible, even when the sidepanel is very slender.
The system resource summary icons stick out to the left only because I didn't bother changing it... I don't like how it looks there, and don't want to leave it that way. It's nothing to do with the width of the whole SidePanel; the summary could laid out so that it's always at the centre or right edge of the panel, with it jutting out left of the main sidepanel left border only when necessary.

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