Design: Ship Range

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Nightfish
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Design: Ship Range

#1 Post by Nightfish » Mon Jul 28, 2003 1:31 pm

One of the loose ends we need to take care of for V0.2 is ship range. This is probably pretty minor but we still need to decide on how we do it.

- Do we limit range at all?

Assuming the answer was "yes":
- What do we use as a limit? (Time, distance,...)?
- How do we increase this limit?
- Do starlanes and offroad travel use the same limit?

Those are the key questions I can think of. Feel free to expand this list with your own thoughts.

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PowerCrazy
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#2 Post by PowerCrazy » Mon Jul 28, 2003 1:42 pm

Strictly for v.2 I'd say range of ships is determined by engine tech. Thus if you have lvl 2 engines you can't move as far or as fast as someone else with lvl 3 engines. This can be implemented as a circle around planets OR as a max amount of travel time. I personally favor the circles.

Though for later versions i'd like to go with a fuel cell tech ala moo2. And you can only traverse a long starlane if the endpoint is within one of your planets circles.
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drekmonger
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#3 Post by drekmonger » Mon Jul 28, 2003 2:22 pm

No technology or ship design in v.2.

Hence, no ship range. Just keep it like v.1.

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Nightfish
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#4 Post by Nightfish » Mon Jul 28, 2003 6:28 pm

I thought there was some sort of basic research even in V0.1? I can't check because I can't find the requiremnts, though.

Ship design probably wouldn't be needed to have range. Unless we want to make things more complicated than MoO2 did.

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#5 Post by drekmonger » Mon Jul 28, 2003 6:57 pm

There are different classes of ships you research in v.1...the Colony Ship, the Scout, and combat ships Mark I-IV.

There's no engine or fuel cell tech. Better to wait until v.3 or v.4 (whenever we start adding the real ship technology tree).

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Nightfish
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#6 Post by Nightfish » Mon Jul 28, 2003 7:05 pm

Okay, my bad. I sort of assumed we'd need range if we need starlanes.

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#7 Post by drekmonger » Mon Jul 28, 2003 7:09 pm

eh, we can implement range. I just thought better to wait until we have the system for determining range in place.

clarification: I mean the system for determining the range a starship can fly, ie, the tech tree and/or ship design.
Last edited by drekmonger on Mon Jul 28, 2003 7:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Nightfish
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#8 Post by Nightfish » Mon Jul 28, 2003 7:14 pm

What more do we need for range than the distance between two stars? That ought to be in V0.1, right? I mean, how would the game work without distance?

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utilae
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#9 Post by utilae » Mon Jul 28, 2003 9:41 pm

Fuel (distance) determines how far we can travel, in Moo2 it's calculated so that if you go somewhere you can always make it back.

Engines (speed) determines how quickly we can travel to a destination.

Moo2s method is a good one. Though the method of floating through space at the lowest speed, because of no fuel is good too.

The second method does not limit you as much, ie you can actually try travelling very far away, it will just take forever.

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Thumper
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#10 Post by Thumper » Mon Jul 28, 2003 9:57 pm

Nightfish wrote:Okay, my bad. I sort of assumed we'd need range if we need starlanes.


What has range to do with starlanes?

If you implement random starlanes then by default you have the range to travel any and all of them.

If you use range then you need to limit any and all starlanes to only go where your current tech can take you. < This goes my not liking starlanes in the first place... I like the idea of going where I want to go not where the game dictates. >


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Re: Design: Ship Range

#11 Post by krum » Mon Jul 28, 2003 9:58 pm

Nightfish wrote:- Do we limit range at all?


I don't see a reason to have range. What's the point, really? Speed seems more than enough, given long enough travel time the ship would be obsolete compared to the advanced technology it would face on arrival. That seems to serve the same purpose range is supposed to.

P.S. Plus, while I know realism doesn't matter, I don't see why a ship shouldn't be able to go anywhere. Fuel? Fuel is used for acceleration at start and decceleration at arrival. Nothing to do with travel distance. Space is not sea or air, not to mention planetary surface.

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Thumper
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Re: Design: Ship Range

#12 Post by Thumper » Mon Jul 28, 2003 10:27 pm

han_krum wrote:Fuel? Fuel is used for acceleration at start and decceleration at arrival. Nothing to do with travel distance. Space is not sea or air, not to mention planetary surface.


I think the idea of fuel is that you are always traveling with the intersteller drive on in order to minimumize travel time. Big boost at the start and end of a flight and coast in between are very low tech, and should not be considered intersteller. Just my two coppers.


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utilae
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#13 Post by utilae » Tue Jul 29, 2003 1:40 am

PowerCrazy wrote:Strictly for v.2 I'd say range of ships is determined by engine tech. Thus if you have lvl 2 engines you can't move as far or as fast as someone else with lvl 3 engines. This can be implemented as a circle around planets OR as a max amount of travel time. I personally favor the circles.

Some advantages/disadvantages always helps.

I'd favour the idea of your speed being reduced, so it takes longer to travel, ie no fuel, etc.

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Impaler
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#14 Post by Impaler » Tue Jul 29, 2003 2:58 am

Obviosly distance will be a result of the Design of the ship with modification by Racial abilites. What adaactly the nature of the ship design paramiters or the abilites dose not need selecting right now.

If starlanes are going to change how far you can travel then we would by nessesity be using some kind of Fuel based rather then "distance from planet" type formula.

The question is between Fuel or fuel-less systems.

Fuel - Advantages - Reaaumm oh wait never mind, independent of ships location in relationship to planets/systems. Creates strategic oportunites.

Fuel - Disadvantages - Calculatingin Fuel consumption, resupplying, mixing ships with different fuel quantities. Running out of gass!

Fuel-less - Advantage - simpler

Fuel-less - Disadvantages - simpler

If we go with fuel then I sugjest we copy the Stars system but with a few changes. Do not varry the rate of fuel consumption by speed, make fuel-distance a set efficiency for each engine (example - 6 persecs per fuel unit, 9 parcecs per unit) and as second factor that determines maximum speed. A fleet then moves at speed of slowest ship with each ship using its fuel-distance ratio to determine fuel consumption.

Sub-light travel might be done differently.
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Impaler
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#15 Post by Impaler » Tue Jul 29, 2003 3:11 am

Because this game will involve FTL drive systems I personaly see nothing wrong with Fuel consumption being proportional to distance traveled (which would normaly not be the case in real Newtonian physics).

Because the FTL drive is violating the laws of physics as we know them its logical for this violation to require a great deal of energy. By expending this energy the ship changes physics in some manor that makes moving FTL possible. If the ship were to stop expending this energy then "real" physics would come crashing down on the ship and slow it down A LOT. Thus the ship must maintain a constant energy output through out its trip and Fuel consumption would be dependent on the distance traveled with possible modification based on speed.

I am hoping to see a destinct difference between Sub-Light and FTL drive systems in our game. Sub light engines for battle and FTL drives between stars. It might also be possible to use Sub-light drives between stars but it would be very slow.
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