Design: Gravity

Past public reviews and discussions.
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Plasma Dragon
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#31 Post by Plasma Dragon » Thu Jul 10, 2003 5:48 pm

Aquitaine wrote:You're making the realism argument.

Gravity affects nothing unless we make it affect something. Just because you can make the point that, if I packed up my stuff and moved to a low-g world, my academic studies might suffer for whatever reason, doesn't mean that it belongs in our game. I'm not convinced that it doesn't, but the argument that 'it can affect stuff' doesn't have a lot of value to me. We have no shortage of things that affect other things.

I'm with Drek on this one. I say we way until we have the econ model hammered out and then decide if we want more variables, and then decide if gravity is what we want.
I am not making the realism argument. Gravity had a different role in Moo2. I can agree it is too early to consider it, but in my opinion gravity should be applied. Here is why : gravity is a balance, a tweak which if right used can be really bring much profit to race. Before the race is created player thinks : Will I play a short attack race or a long defending ? So he chooses what he wants. Brutal heavy G, transdimensional .... etc race can really work nice on small map, when players hit themselfs fast. Low G is workin great as minus pick in longest games when player can build up planetary gravity generator and continue his expansion. Personally I dont care about realism. All I care is a good game 8)
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jbarcz1
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#32 Post by jbarcz1 » Thu Jul 10, 2003 6:15 pm

Aquitaine wrote:You're making the realism argument.

I'm with Drek on this one. I say we way until we have the econ model hammered out and then decide if we want more variables, and then decide if gravity is what we want.
I was under the impression that the econ model was already finalized, in that each population point produces X units each of minerals, production, research, or food depending on the planet's foci?
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drekmonger
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#33 Post by drekmonger » Thu Jul 10, 2003 9:07 pm

The econ system still needs the actual numbers finalized (although NF has already published a set--the ones I use in Freeorion.xls.) Plus there are some tangent game systems like Stockpiles that have yet to be finalized.

FluffyKittens
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Keep it simple?

#34 Post by FluffyKittens » Wed Jul 23, 2003 9:21 am

Just going to chuck in my penny's worth.

We should keep gravity simple. Have 5 classes, v.low (even asteroids have some gravity) low, medium, high, v.high.

Races that are adapted to low gravity will be used to moving / operating in these conditions, therefore as in moo2 have production bonus's and penalties.

In ground combat low g races would get bonuses on low g worlds
E.g. perhaps faster movement (longer legs), +increase in accuracy etc.
High g races will still get strength / toughness bonuses, but obviously are not as well adapted to low g environments.

So, (Quick example, stats not balanced!!!!)

Race picks:
Low = -4
Normal=0
High=+4

5 gravity classes:

v.low
low
Medium
High
v.hign

LOW g races PRODUCTION bonuses:

v.low , low , medium, high, v.high
+20% +10% 0% -10% -20%


HIGH g races PRODUCTION bonuses:

v.low , low , medium, high, v.high
-20% -10% 0% +10% +20%


LOW g races COMBAT bonuses:

STAT v.low , low , medium, high, v.high
Speed +10% +5% 0% -10% -20%
Strength +5% +0% 0% -10% -20%
Accuracy +20% +10% 0% -10% -15%
Tactics +10% +10% +5% -10% -10%


HIGH g races COMBAT bonuses:

STAT v.low , low , medium, high, v.high
Speed -10% -5% 0% +10% +20%
Strength +40% +30% +20% +10% 0%
Accuracy -20% -10% 0% +10% +20%
Tactics -10% -10% +5% +10% +10%

(NOTE: stats would have to be balanced A LOT better than this!!!!!!!)
Can’t be bothered to type out stats for normal but you get the picture.

Conclusion:
1) Significant advantage to being high g race however when fighting on low g worlds, low g races have key advantages.

2) Include other modifiers such as defenders bonus (know terrain etc). This makes invading colonies HARD for any race, but EXTREAMELY HARD for low g races to invade high g worlds.
"If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough." :Albert Einstein

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Impaler
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#35 Post by Impaler » Fri Jul 25, 2003 4:32 am

Sounds good too me, but lets make the production bonus aply to starship production rather then "all" industry.
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PowerCrazy
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#36 Post by PowerCrazy » Fri Jul 25, 2003 6:15 am

why starship production only? If anything it should NOT affect starship production. As any ship of significant will be constructed far away from the planet in orbit. Rather than on the surface. So is this a realism argument or just an arbitrary penalty? If its the later the penalty should be on ALL industry.
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krum
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#37 Post by krum » Fri Jul 25, 2003 5:01 pm

@ PC: Starship production only because it doesn't matter much what the gravity is for construction on planet, OTOH the cost for lifting material in space is a very important factor. That was HIS point. But seems to me this is not about industry but about minerals.

MY idea is we should factor in gravity in the cost of putting materials in the imperial mineral stockpile. Maye make it possible to set a limit on how full you want it or how much you can afford to spend.

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utilae
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#38 Post by utilae » Fri Jul 25, 2003 9:07 pm

What if some races decide to build their ship on the surface and some in space. Also once you get into space you would feel the effect of gravity less than if you were on the surface.

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Thumper
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#39 Post by Thumper » Fri Jul 25, 2003 9:19 pm

utilae wrote:What if some races decide to build their ship on the surface and some in space. Also once you get into space you would feel the effect of gravity less than if you were on the surface.
In space your ship movement is limited by how many of your world's gravities your race can withstand. Until you have the tech to build gravity regulators. Races from low gravity worlds would be limited to very low angle of attack when changing direction... as in battle. Those races from HG worlds would have a very distinct advantage over the LG races in battle... being able to cord the arc when attacking and making hg turns in order to regroup or flee.


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jbarcz1
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#41 Post by jbarcz1 » Fri Jul 25, 2003 11:05 pm

"special" means that things like "high-G" or 'low-G' would be implemented as planetary specials, rather than as an attribute that's assigned to every planet. Any planet that doesn't have the special is assumed to have 'normal' gravity.

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Thumper
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#43 Post by Thumper » Sat Jul 26, 2003 2:45 am

Okarena wrote:Just kidding around. I mean, life on low-g could be happy. High-g must be the hell. :)
Actually beings that evolved on HG and "Normal G" worlds will find LG/ZG worlds a very serious problem. The body need the straign of working within its normal gravity or it starts to atrophy. On a planet it is not easy to build centripetal force facilities into buildings in order for the masses to stay fit.

EDIT: Beings will adapt to higher gravities better than to lower ones.

On this basis I also propose a six point system with Earth norm being "2".

0 = ZG/VLG - the Moon
1 = Mars - LG - about 6000 Mi dia (4 - 7000 mi)
2 = Earth - Human normal - about 8000 Mi dia (7-10000 mi)
3 = HG - about 12000 Mi dia (10-15000 mi)
4 = VHG - about 17000 Mi dia (15 - 20000 mi)
5 = Anything larger than 20000 mi dia (Gas giants) < only the moons of these are habitable. And they would fall within the range of 0 - 4 per moon >


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The Silent One
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Re: Keep it simple?

#44 Post by The Silent One » Sat Jul 26, 2003 8:24 am

FluffyKittens wrote:HIGH g races PRODUCTION bonuses:

v.low , low , medium, high, v.high
-20% -10% 0% +10% +20%


I don't see why high - g - races should get penalties on planets with low g. In my opinion,

v.low , low , medium , high , v. high
0% 0% 0% +10% +20%

seems more likely, as the high - g - race has features which give them advantages on high - g - planets, but don't handicap them on low - g - planets. One could argue that there they should also been given a bonus, but here I would come back to Impaler's point that high - g- races adapt to the low - g - conditions.

Another question would be, are low - g - races able to adapt to high - g - worlds, or are they unable to do it maybe because of their genes?

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utilae
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#45 Post by utilae » Sat Jul 26, 2003 8:39 pm

If a race evolved on a high g world, that race would be strong enough to cope with the high g gravity, so upon going to a low g world, that race would be even stronger in the much weaker gravity.

If a race evolved on a low g world, that race would be strong enough to cope with the low g gravity, so upon going to a high g world, that race would strugle under the stronger gravity.

Would these statements be true? They sound logical.

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