Diversifying Species

Creation, discussion, and balancing of game content such as techs, buildings, ship parts.

Moderators: Oberlus, Committer, Oberlus, Committer

Message
Author
Lukc
Space Floater
Posts: 19
Joined: Thu Jun 24, 2010 9:45 pm
Location: France

Re: Diversifying Species

#31 Post by Lukc » Sat Mar 17, 2012 8:11 am

Sloth wrote:
Lukc wrote: Besides that, I think you should have declared new macros for your new EPs.
A macro only pays off if the configuration is used at least twice. I don't know if future species want to use these tables.
My point being that, if another specie will use the same EP table, a macro will already be available.
Sloth wrote:
Lukc wrote: As for the Ugmorrs, I suggest putting the Swamps and Tundra to Poor instead of Hostile. Else terraforming would be very long for Terran planets… (and, that would put a Poor planet in the way, too)
Ugmorrs are a minor species at the moment. I think there is no reason to give them a "fair" environmental table. I might be swayed to make Swamp poor, but Tundra should be hostile for a heat loving species.
Sounds reasonable to me. :)

User avatar
Sloth
Content Scripter
Posts: 685
Joined: Sat Mar 17, 2007 12:28 am

Re: Diversifying Species

#32 Post by Sloth » Sat Mar 17, 2012 2:59 pm

I toyed around with another idea today: Minor species protecting their system with ships (handled as space monsters).

Gameplay reasons:
Some of the good specials generate Guardians to make the player invest something for their gain, so why not some useful minor species too.

Flavor reasons:
For example the Acimera are an advanced species, but cannot leave their planet. It would be only natural for them to build remote controlled guardian ships to defend their planet/system from empires.

Implementation:
I already managed to give the Acimera an EffectsGroup that generates a guardian ship at turn 0. I want to expand that to a steady production of ships (like another ship every 40 turns). Is there a way to use the residual/modulo function in the activation condition (in c++ lang: Turn % 40 = 0)?

Uh, and what do you think about this in general?
All released under the GNU GPL 2.0 and Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike 3.0 licences.

Lukc
Space Floater
Posts: 19
Joined: Thu Jun 24, 2010 9:45 pm
Location: France

Re: Diversifying Species

#33 Post by Lukc » Sat Mar 17, 2012 3:18 pm

Could be “fun”. :) But, instead of having a steady production, why not a random chance of a new ship appearing? And, as for the kind of ship appearing, I’d prefer seeing several classes (also at random) than always the same class and its improvements, like what is done for the AI players.

Small frigates and rare cruiser or logistic ships, or anything else, could be more fun than having a lot of Mark X stationing with an increasing number around a planet…

User avatar
eleazar
Design & Graphics Lead Emeritus
Posts: 3858
Joined: Sat Sep 23, 2006 7:09 pm
Location: USA — midwest

Re: Diversifying Species

#34 Post by eleazar » Sun Mar 18, 2012 2:18 am

revision 4736
"More species macros especially growth-rate variability by sloth."

I replaced the species-specific asymmetrical EP tables with standardized "NARROW" and "BROAD" symetrical EP tables, and changed a few details, but it is substantially what sloth produced
Sloth wrote:I toyed around with another idea today: Minor species protecting their system with ships (handled as space monsters).

Gameplay reasons:
Some of the good specials generate Guardians to make the player invest something for their gain, so why not some useful minor species too.
Building spaceships is pretty much the concrete distinction between Imperial species (currently all playable) and minor species. If you want more empires, up the number when you start the game. Generally it's assumed that the minor species aren't spacefaring empires because they don't have the techs (or mindset) to make ships and leave their system.

However it is plausible that the Caretaker Precursors would protect some species with Guardian ships or even better-- shields.
Sloth wrote: already managed to give the Acimera an EffectsGroup that generates a guardian ship at turn 0. I want to expand that to a steady production of ships (like another ship every 40 turns).
However in the case of the Acimera it makes sense that they have ships, but aren't imperial. Since you've made it, we might as well put it in and see how it plays.

User avatar
Sloth
Content Scripter
Posts: 685
Joined: Sat Mar 17, 2007 12:28 am

Re: Diversifying Species

#35 Post by Sloth » Sun Mar 18, 2012 11:35 am

eleazar wrote:revision 4736
"More species macros especially growth-rate variability by sloth."

I replaced the species-specific asymmetrical EP tables with standardized "NARROW" and "BROAD" symetrical EP tables, and changed a few details, but it is substantially what sloth produced
Thanks eleazar.
eleazar wrote:However in the case of the Acimera it makes sense that they have ships, but aren't imperial. Since you've made it, we might as well put it in and see how it plays.
Here is the patch (the Acirema will now produce ships on turn 10, 80, 150, 220 and 290, but only if there is no empire next to them):
Attachments

[The extension patch has been deactivated and can no longer be displayed.]

All released under the GNU GPL 2.0 and Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike 3.0 licences.

User avatar
Sloth
Content Scripter
Posts: 685
Joined: Sat Mar 17, 2007 12:28 am

Re: Diversifying Species

#36 Post by Sloth » Sun Mar 25, 2012 9:52 am

I have added another feature to the Acirema: Their planet will now be protected with a Shield of 5 and a Defense of 5.
Attachments

[The extension patch has been deactivated and can no longer be displayed.]

All released under the GNU GPL 2.0 and Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike 3.0 licences.

User avatar
eleazar
Design & Graphics Lead Emeritus
Posts: 3858
Joined: Sat Sep 23, 2006 7:09 pm
Location: USA — midwest

Re: Diversifying Species

#37 Post by eleazar » Sun Mar 25, 2012 10:27 pm

Cool, i'll get that in soon.

User avatar
eleazar
Design & Graphics Lead Emeritus
Posts: 3858
Joined: Sat Sep 23, 2006 7:09 pm
Location: USA — midwest

Re: Diversifying Species

#38 Post by eleazar » Mon Mar 26, 2012 3:01 pm

Code: Select all

r4747 | geoffthemedio | 2012-03-25 16:20:08 -0500 (Sun, 25 Mar 2012) | 1 line

Modified universe generation to only add natives to planets if those species have the Native flag set.  Without adding that flag to species.txt, this means no natives will generate at present.
Geoff, So, what is the "native flag"?

Adding "Native" doesn't work, and breaks the following definitions.

User avatar
Geoff the Medio
Programming, Design, Admin
Posts: 12453
Joined: Wed Oct 08, 2003 1:33 am
Location: Munich

Re: Diversifying Species

#39 Post by Geoff the Medio » Mon Mar 26, 2012 3:25 pm

eleazar wrote:Geoff, So, what is the "native flag"?
revision 4738 wrote:Added "native" property to species, with parsing by a flag after Playable. Not yet used for anything or added to Species.txt.
As suggested by the quotes, the flag is set by putting Native in the species definition on the line after where Playable appears or could appear.
Adding "Native" doesn't work, and breaks the following definitions.
It should work, after Playable, in the 4747 build.

User avatar
eleazar
Design & Graphics Lead Emeritus
Posts: 3858
Joined: Sat Sep 23, 2006 7:09 pm
Location: USA — midwest

Re: Diversifying Species

#40 Post by eleazar » Mon Mar 26, 2012 4:58 pm

Geoff the Medio wrote:]
revision 4738 wrote:Added "native" property to species, with parsing by a flag after Playable. Not yet used for anything or added to Species.txt.
As suggested by the quotes, the flag is set by putting Native in the species definition on the line after where Playable appears or could appear.
Special order again, huh?
Ok it works as long as it does not fall after "CanColonize" or "CanBuildShips"

revision 4748
"re-added native species with the new tag."

revision 4749
"Now Acirema build ships occansionally and have some defenses by Sloth."

User avatar
Sloth
Content Scripter
Posts: 685
Joined: Sat Mar 17, 2007 12:28 am

Re: Diversifying Species

#41 Post by Sloth » Mon Mar 26, 2012 5:58 pm

eleazar wrote: revision 4748
"re-added native species with the new tag."
I think you forgot the SETINON and NYMNMN species.
eleazar wrote: revision 4749
"Now Acirema build ships occansionally and have some defenses by Sloth."
Thanks eleazar.
All released under the GNU GPL 2.0 and Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike 3.0 licences.

User avatar
eleazar
Design & Graphics Lead Emeritus
Posts: 3858
Joined: Sat Sep 23, 2006 7:09 pm
Location: USA — midwest

Re: Diversifying Species

#42 Post by eleazar » Mon Mar 26, 2012 6:31 pm

Sloth wrote:I think you forgot the SETINON and NYMNMN species.
Yep, thanks.

Fixed in 4750

User avatar
eleazar
Design & Graphics Lead Emeritus
Posts: 3858
Joined: Sat Sep 23, 2006 7:09 pm
Location: USA — midwest

Re: Diversifying Species

#43 Post by eleazar » Sun Apr 01, 2012 3:06 am

revision 4776
"Some tweaks to species:
> * Game humans all average stats for testing purposes
> * Added Volp-Puglush-Vuu and Ourbools minor species
> * Gave tunnels special on turn 1 to appropriate subterrainian species"

User avatar
eleazar
Design & Graphics Lead Emeritus
Posts: 3858
Joined: Sat Sep 23, 2006 7:09 pm
Location: USA — midwest

Re: Diversifying Species

#44 Post by eleazar » Mon Apr 02, 2012 4:46 pm

I've simplified the naming convention of the species macros and how they are used:

Previously
  • "No(ne)" produces nothing
    "Terrible" produces 50%
    "Poor" produces 75% (currently not used)
    "Average" produces 100%
    "Good" produces 150% (currently not used)
    "Great" produces 200%
    "Ultimate" produces 300%
Now (r4781)
  • "No(ne)" produces nothing
    "Bad" produces 50%
    "Average" produces 100%
    "Good" produces 150%
    "Great" produces 250%
    "Ultimate" produces 400%
"Ultimate" is now very rare, and probably will only be given to planet-bound species and/precursors. It's bonus theoretically pushes production past 100 so "Ultimate" species are gimped. "Hidden Gardener" for instance won't appear on a "Huge" world.

We're striving for a game that presents the player with significant choices, not tiny micromanage-y choices of dubious important. So i combined "Poor" and "Terrible" into a single, more obviously named "Bad".



The precise numbers of course may change.

User avatar
MikkoM
Space Dragon
Posts: 318
Joined: Fri Mar 10, 2006 12:32 pm
Location: Finland

Re: Diversifying Species

#45 Post by MikkoM » Sun Apr 08, 2012 8:06 pm

Geoff the Medio wrote:
eleazar wrote:...i've upped the total number of playable species to 12...
Unless there's a compelling reason, I'd like to keep the total playable species to 10 or less, and perhaps closer to 8. Having too many options to chose from makes things quite intimidating for players, leading to decision paralysis. Fewer more-distinct options let the player more-easily be sure he / she has the best one for what they want and be happy about the decision.
Geoff the Medio wrote:
Bigjoe5 wrote:Do you mean in the long-term, or just for now?
Long term.
This sounds very odd. Sure having just a few options makes the decision making easier for the player, since there isn`t much to choose from, but it can also make a game to loose much of its replay value, since all the possible combinations are quickly tested and played through. Also with just 8 different species you could get a max 8 species game in a 500 star galaxy without having to take two representatives of some of the same species in a single galaxy, which at least in my opinion pretty much ruins the immersion of unique alien species. (I am not saying that this shouldn`t be allowed at all, but that the player should definitely have an option to decide if he/she wants to have just one of each species in a galaxy or allows for more than one to occur.) Also if there where like 16 playable alien species to choose from, the player could have an 8 player (quite large) game without having all the possible species in a single game.

But after that been said of course the species that are chosen to the game should be interesting and at least in some way different from each other, what ever the final number will be.

Post Reply