Making Enough Star Names for Very Large Galaxies

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MatGB
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Re: Making Enough Star Names for Very Large Galaxies

#61 Post by MatGB »

Observation, definitely need the groupname first and whatever's settled on (alpha, A, primus, whatever) for the count second, for one reason: Objects menu results, having planets close to each other grouped on that will be very helpful.
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eleazar
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Re: Making Enough Star Names for Very Large Galaxies

#62 Post by eleazar »

OK, thanks to vezzra's fix SVN 6784 is now ~1400 star names which don't exceed 10 chars and don't mess up FO-- at least on my machine.

Accented characters seem to work now. Mostly they were included from the word for "star" and "sun" in various languages.



Re: the problem of an over-crowded galaxy map. The names of uninhabited systems (i.e. no native or imperial presence) could be omitted for the first two or three zoom levels where names are displayed. That would significantly clean up the display in the early game in an unfamiliar galaxy.

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Dilvish
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Re: Making Enough Star Names for Very Large Galaxies

#63 Post by Dilvish »

ok, here is a new revision. I think it's got pretty much all the changes we've talked about, except for the named Deep Space -- I figured I'd leave that for a separate patch since unlike this it would require a recompile anyways, but not much more will be needed for that, and just in System.cpp. As for this revision, there is a new stringtable list for names specifically for system groups; additionally any starnames in the main list that are no more than six characters are potential candidates for either individual systems or system groups. I also put in a number of variables at the top that people can easily fiddle with to try out different modes [edit] to clarify, the following lines are in default/UniverseGenerator.py[/edit]:

Code: Select all

## star group naming options 
# if star_groups_use_chars is true use single chars like "α" from the stringtable entry STAR_GROUP_CHARS, 
# otherwise use words like 'Alpha' from the stringtable entry STAR_GROUP_WORDS. 
star_groups_use_chars = True
postfix_stargroup_modifiers = True # if false then prefix 

# the target proportion of systems to be given individual names, dependent on size of galaxy
target_indiv_ratio_small = 0.6
target_indiv_ratio_large = 0.3
naming_large_galaxy_size = 200
here is a sampling of screenshots; the first 4 are with the 4 different permutations of star_groups_use_chars and postfix_stargroup_modifiers; the last is with a lower target_indiv_ratio_small.
stargroups2a.png
stargroups2a.png (564.03 KiB) Viewed 1887 times
stargroups2b.png
stargroups2b.png (567.62 KiB) Viewed 1887 times
Vezzra, this is probably still missing some comments, and doesn't yet have any of the function renaming we've discussed, but I haven't forgotten.
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[The extension patch has been deactivated and can no longer be displayed.]

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Dilvish
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Re: Making Enough Star Names for Very Large Galaxies

#64 Post by Dilvish »

stargroups2c.png
stargroups2c.png (574.4 KiB) Viewed 1887 times
stargroups2d.png
stargroups2d.png (568.63 KiB) Viewed 1887 times
stargroups2e.png
stargroups2e.png (566.51 KiB) Viewed 1887 times
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Geoff the Medio
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Re: Making Enough Star Names for Very Large Galaxies

#65 Post by Geoff the Medio »

If not already done, would it be simple to preferentially use related names for closely-connected systems? Might make more sense in a gameplay context, rather than having Alpha and Beta spatially adjacent but separated by a 4 or 5 jump circuitous starlane path. Gruis α and γ are pretty remote...

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Dilvish
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Re: Making Enough Star Names for Very Large Galaxies

#66 Post by Dilvish »

Geoff the Medio wrote:If not already done, would it be simple to preferentially use related names for closely-connected systems? Might make more sense in a gameplay context, rather than having Alpha and Beta spatially adjacent but separated by a 4 or 5 jump circuitous starlane path. Gruis α and γ are pretty remote...
I had considered that issue, but put it off because I didn't see an easy fix & was focused on the above work. On thinking more now, it seems that adjustment would not be too bad, but it's not simple enough for me to want to take it on just now; like I said, I need a bit of a break from this. Right now the naming is figured out prior to creating the System objects (since their constructor expects a name), but GenerateStarlanes() has to be run after the Systems have been inserted into the Universe. Instead, the Systems could all be initially given generic names & then renamed after the starlanes have been generated. Doesn't sound too bad, though it would put to waste a fair bit of reorganization I just did. That's how it goes sometimes, but it doesn't make me anxious to immediately rush off to reorganize again and implement something more before my current work has been used, evaluated & discussed more.

**edit* plus, that's just to get the information available. actually working it into the clustering mechanism would take additional thought -- any suggestions on that front?
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Ta'Lon
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Re: Making Enough Star Names for Very Large Galaxies

#67 Post by Ta'Lon »

I like this format the best.

Image

Some might like the greek symbols better, but I like having Centauri Alpha, Centauri Beta, etc.

I'd love to grab the script that does this iteration for my next game, while you tinker with making something more detailed!

On a side note, I wouldn't mind a Cygnus X1 thrown in there just for fun...
In the constellation of Cygnus
There lurks a mysterious, invisible force
The Black Hole
Of Cygnus X-1

Six Stars of the Northern Cross
In mourning for their sister's loss
In a final flash of glory
Nevermore to grace the night...
I can rename a black hole system on my own, though, no need for a script to be written just for me! :mrgreen:


I had a thought for starless nodes. Borrowing from the 'Wolf 359' idea, you could have starless nodes use numbers instead of letters. I.E. Deep Space Centauri 1, Deep Space Centauri 2, etc.. That way, when you see a list of ships arriving at Deep Space on the events list, you'll have a frame of reference.

In my current game, I'm seeing names getting reused, so I'd love to have the alpha, beta, gamma thing to multiply the available names more easily. 900 systems and 9 opponents has brought my circa 2007 dual core to it's knees in the late game (turn 350 ish), so I don't recommend large system counts for low end machines. It is pretty cool fighting up the spiral arm though, yet not having any idea of what is going on in the other 3/4s of the galaxy (I've only revealed about a quarter of the map at this point).

I'm thinking Alpha, Beta, Gamma, Delta and Epsilon are all good. Having more than five systems in a group might be overkill...

I was about to go into the names list and see if I could just add a bunch of names, but as I said I love the star group naming convention y'all have come up with!
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Dilvish
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Re: Making Enough Star Names for Very Large Galaxies

#68 Post by Dilvish »

Ta'Lon wrote:I'd love to grab the script that does this iteration for my next game, while you tinker with making something more detailed!
ok, here are the actual files corresponding to the current SVN version 6792.
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en.txt
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Adamant
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Re: Making Enough Star Names for Very Large Galaxies

#69 Post by Adamant »

IF there are Ideas to determine most lumminous Stars and group them to Constellations that Constellation, draw Lines between them to get any geometric Thingy that looks like ... eg a Water-Carrier Aquarius - you know how well the Constellations render the Objects they are named for .... and thus can Stars per Constellation get named, adding
Alpha,Beta and Whisky.
Pure Cyan harms PhotoReceptors doubtless - even half Portion appears mysterious.

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Re: Making Enough Star Names for Very Large Galaxies

#70 Post by Adamant »

Addition: You see Abbreviations on StarMap which are useful to zoom out of Map more with readable Star IDs.
Why dont add Abbreviation like Codes to Stars and Map show that largest Type that fits on Map Zoom inclusind None as Type.
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Dilvish
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Re: Making Enough Star Names for Very Large Galaxies

#71 Post by Dilvish »

Adamant wrote:IF there are Ideas to determine most lumminous Stars and group them to Constellations that Constellation, draw Lines between them to get any geometric Thingy that looks like ... eg a Water-Carrier Aquarius - you know how well the Constellations render the Objects they are named for .... and thus can Stars per Constellation get named, adding
Alpha,Beta and Whisky.
I don't think that's planned at the moment. It does sound like just the kind of thing that moving Universe Generation over to a content level python script is meant to let players experiment with; if you know some python that idea sounds totally doable.
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Vezzra
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Re: Making Enough Star Names for Very Large Galaxies

#72 Post by Vezzra »

eleazar wrote:Re: the problem of an over-crowded galaxy map. The names of uninhabited systems (i.e. no native or imperial presence) could be omitted for the first two or three zoom levels where names are displayed. That would significantly clean up the display in the early game in an unfamiliar galaxy.
Hm, that's an interesting idea. I'm very much in favor of at least trying that out.

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Re: Making Enough Star Names for Very Large Galaxies

#73 Post by Vezzra »

Ok, I've taken a look at v3 of the patch (and run a few quick tests), and as far as I am concerned, it's ripe for committing. Of course there's still work to be done, but it doesn't really break anything, and we don't have to perfect everything before a first commit. So, Dilvish, I'd say go ahead and commit the thing.
Dilvish wrote:Vezzra, this is probably still missing some comments,
Being someone who often enough puts in comments afterwards, I'm not really in the position to complain ;)
and doesn't yet have any of the function renaming we've discussed, but I haven't forgotten.
Also no problem, of course we have to do it, but I don't think that's top priority. Nothing going to happen if that doesn't happen immediately.

However, I do have some comments, but as they are more concerned with the universe generation script in general and less with star system naming in particular, I'll post a response in the scripted universe generation thread.

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Ta'Lon
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Re: Making Enough Star Names for Very Large Galaxies

#74 Post by Ta'Lon »

Thanks Dilvish! I still need to figure out how to compile the code. Got as far as (I think) updating the build/downoading all of the recent commits, but I don't think I did it right.
My design/progamming skills right now end at casual .xml editing, although I am somewhat of a photoshop wiz. I also thought about maybe taking a crack at a new .ogg sound file, although I really like the current game music, kudos to the musician behind that! My music skills tend to be more intense i.e. symphonic/prog metal oriented... battle music might be right up my alley.

It might not be a bad idea at this point to release a new beta build, for those of us with slower computers, so that we all are working off of the current game stae as we alpha test this stuff. The latest SVN available on the site is apparently from mid 2013.

I like the idea of having the labels for starless regions only appear at a closer zoom level, with those names disappearing once you zoom out a bit. Perhaps they could still appear when you mouse over them if you were zoomed out. Another idea might be to truncate the cluster star names at further zoom levels, so that Centauri Alpha becomes Centauri A, to help reduce clutter as the map size shrinks.

One other thought I had, based on the comments made, is to 'Rank' the subname assignments (alpha, beta, etc) in a clustered group by size. I.E. Centauri Alpha would have the biggest/hottest star, Centauri Beta less bright, etc.

Nice work guys! 8)
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Dilvish
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Re: Making Enough Star Names for Very Large Galaxies

#75 Post by Dilvish »

Ta'Lon wrote:Thanks Dilvish! I still need to figure out how to compile the code. Got as far as (I think) updating the build/downoading all of the recent commits, but I don't think I did it right.
It may not be your problem, there appears to be a problem in the latest slew of commits. I just updated and rebuilt this morning and get a crash when using the production queue.
It might not be a bad idea at this point to release a new beta build, for those of us with slower computers, so that we all are working off of the current game stae as we alpha test this stuff. The latest SVN available on the site is apparently from mid 2013.
We are talking about when to release the next 'stable' release, but the weekly test builds are generally plenty stable, use the most recent one of those. There may wind up a slight mismatch with the universe generation script I posted above, but just post here if that's the case & I'm sure we could get it sorted out quickly for you.
One other thought I had, based on the comments made, is to 'Rank' the subname assignments (alpha, beta, etc) in a clustered group by size. I.E. Centauri Alpha would have the biggest/hottest star, Centauri Beta less bright, etc.
hmm, sounds interesting, & would be fairly easy to implement
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