Making Enough Star Names for Very Large Galaxies

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Dilvish
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Re: Making Enough Star Names for Very Large Galaxies

#76 Post by Dilvish »

Vezzra wrote:So, Dilvish, I'd say go ahead and commit the thing.
I made a few more changes, redoing all the python function names as we'd discussed (but I didn't get to changing the c++ imported fo.fooBar() names). I also added a bit more checking regarding Deep Space so that you won't wind up with just a StarGroupName Alpha seemingly by itself because all the other systems in its group are Deep Space. Seems to all work fine, so I've committed that now.

Eleazar -- please give some thought to which, if any, of the stargroup options at the top of the file (noted a couple of posts above) should be actual options-panel options, or galaxy setup window options.
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Geoff the Medio
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Re: Making Enough Star Names for Very Large Galaxies

#77 Post by Geoff the Medio »

I suggest also making player homeworlds have a unique name. It feels a bit odd to start in "Pell α".

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Dilvish
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Re: Making Enough Star Names for Very Large Galaxies

#78 Post by Dilvish »

Geoff the Medio wrote:I suggest also making player homeworlds have a unique name. It feels a bit odd to start in "Pell α".
Choosing homeworlds is also one of those things that would need a lot of restructuring to be done before creating systems. Starting in "Pell α" hasn't seemed odd to me, perhaps we can see how it's received more broadly.
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Ta'Lon
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Re: Making Enough Star Names for Very Large Galaxies

#79 Post by Ta'Lon »

Adding a 'homeworld name' string to the species file would be one way to go. That way, you could automatically (re)assign the name Chato Prime to the Chato homeworld as an example. You can already assign world sizes and such to a species using that file, as well as their preferred world type, so assigning a name as well should be doable in some fashion.

In fact, I've seen one or two homeworld names mentioned when browsing the description text of those files.

Similarly, it'd be nice to assign a name to a race's home star system as well. Such as Sol for the Humans, using that file. I do like the idea of mixing up the world assignments in the home system, but that could be a place to do some fine balancing (i.e. which other worlds are automatically assigned in the home system). Sol might have a yellow star, inferno world (Venus), terran world (Terra/Earth), barren world (Mars), an asteroid belt, and a Gas Giant (Jupiter). I'm guessing that 5 is the preset game limit for planets, so Mercury, Pluto, Saturn, Uranus and Neptune would be likely candidates for the chopping block.

There are more important things to work on at the moment, but it might be nice to add it later when the game is ready for some spit shine an polish.
Last edited by Ta'Lon on Sun Feb 02, 2014 9:15 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Geoff the Medio
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Re: Making Enough Star Names for Very Large Galaxies

#80 Post by Geoff the Medio »

Ta'Lon wrote:Adding a 'homeworld name' string to the species file would be one way to go. That way, you could automatically (re)assign the name Chato Prime to the Chato homeworld as an example.
There can be more than one homeworld for a given species.

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MatGB
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Re: Making Enough Star Names for Very Large Galaxies

#81 Post by MatGB »

I'm playing through with patch 3 having played a game with 1 & 2, and have zero problem starting in a system that's Alpha something, etc, I quite like it, it means you've got a "local group".

But if others really don't then it doesn't matter.

I would BTW much prefer the homeworlds to have shorter names, my personal install has "glorious revolutionary planning centre" replaced by "glorious", etc. Chato Prime, etc would be much nicer again.
Ta'Lon wrote: inferno world (Venus)
Why does everyone think Venus is an Inferno world? Venus is a Toxic world, fairly obviously, Io is an Inferno (but even I wouldn't go so far as to suggest inhabitable moons, although it would be cool in a much smaller scale game).
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Geoff the Medio
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Re: Making Enough Star Names for Very Large Galaxies

#82 Post by Geoff the Medio »

MatGB wrote:I would BTW much prefer the homeworlds to have shorter names
I think that's an AI issue, not universe generation.

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Dilvish
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Re: Making Enough Star Names for Very Large Galaxies

#83 Post by Dilvish »

MatGB wrote:I would BTW much prefer the homeworlds to have shorter names, my personal install has "glorious revolutionary planning centre" replaced by "glorious", etc. Chato Prime, etc would be much nicer again.
You can easily make changes like the "Glorious" one by editing your stringtable, search for
AI_CAPITOL_NAMES_MANIACAL, for example. Naming it according to species would be a bit more involved, you'd have to do a little python programming in default/AI/FreeOrionAI.py in the startNewGame() function, but it would be readily do-able.
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Re: Making Enough Star Names for Very Large Galaxies

#84 Post by Ta'Lon »

MatGB wrote:I'm playing through with patch 3 having played a game with 1 & 2, and have zero problem starting in a system that's Alpha something, etc, I quite like it, it means you've got a "local group".

But if others really don't then it doesn't matter.

I would BTW much prefer the homeworlds to have shorter names, my personal install has "glorious revolutionary planning centre" replaced by "glorious", etc. Chato Prime, etc would be much nicer again.
Ta'Lon wrote: inferno world (Venus)
Why does everyone think Venus is an Inferno world? Venus is a Toxic world, fairly obviously, Io is an Inferno (but even I wouldn't go so far as to suggest inhabitable moons, although it would be cool in a much smaller scale game).
Inferno to me means hot. Venus is VERY hot, having the hottest consistent planetary surface temperature in our solar system. Probe innards tend to melt/fail when they land on it's surface, and the record for a probe functioning on the surface of Venus is a mere 127 minutes apparently...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Observatio ... s_of_Venus

Venus' atmosphere is acidic as well, but IO's surface Temperature is an average of -202 degrees F (-130 degrees C), with some hot spots near the volcanoes, in comparison with Venus, with an average surface temp of 872 degrees F (467 degrees C), above the melting point of lead (lesson: don't use lead solder in Venus probes). Humans would roast to a cinder rather quickly, with the water in their veins boiling off rapidly, before the acidic nature of the atmosphere started to corrode their flesh. Envirosuits would have to have hella awesome air conditioning, in addition to being resistant to corrosion.
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Re: Making Enough Star Names for Very Large Galaxies

#85 Post by MatGB »

All true, but Venus isn't a molten ball of lava floating in space, which is how the inferno worls are described, the Ugmors in particular live on an Io like world, not a Venus like world, which has a toxic/acidic atmosphere that is also very hot.

The Inferno description is of a ball of lava, like Io, and it's pictured to look like Io, Venus looks like a toxic world and the toxic description is similar to Venus. Hot surface temperature isn't the same as lots of volcanoes constantly erupting everywhere.
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Re: Making Enough Star Names for Very Large Galaxies

#86 Post by MatGB »

Back to topic. Playing with version 3 of the patch from this thread, unedited as yet (thought I'd try with the Greek letters, don't like, can't remember them at all, but it's nice to have the option and they probably should be the default).

There's a cluster Eek a, b, c & d at the top of the map (on the left), but in the bit I've just got to on the right there's another star called Eek on its own. While we've always had the chance of duplication, it should be happening in a 400 system setup when there are so many clusters with the massive increase in starnames we've had, should it?
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Re: Making Enough Star Names for Very Large Galaxies

#87 Post by eleazar »

It feels a little weird to me that we are using the lower case greek letters. Is that what astronomers would do?
Dilvish wrote:Eleazar -- please give some thought to which, if any, of the stargroup options at the top of the file (noted a couple of posts above) should be actual options-panel options, or galaxy setup window options.
I don't think i would put any of those in the galaxy setup-- unless the clusters (as suggested in the other thread) are more than a naming convention.
Switching between "alpha" and "α" could IMHO belong in the options, if it were reversible. If not, i still think the latin alphabet has more utility than the greek there.

I don't think anyone is arguing for "alpha/α/A" to be put first in the name-- though for right-to-left languages that should probably be the default.
Geoff the Medio wrote:I suggest also making player homeworlds have a unique name. It feels a bit odd to start in "Pell α".
It doesn't bother me any more than the homeworlds getting random names in general.

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Re: Making Enough Star Names for Very Large Galaxies

#88 Post by Geoff the Medio »

eleazar wrote:It feels a little weird to me that we are using the lower case greek letters. Is that what astronomers would do?
Historically often: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_brightest_stars

So far as I can tell, Latin letters are used to indicate the separate stars within a single system: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Closest_stars#List
Geoff the Medio wrote:I suggest also making player homeworlds have a unique name. It feels a bit odd to start in "Pell α".
It doesn't bother me any more than the homeworlds getting random names in general.
I might be thinking of it from the context that if these are systems containing homeworlds, they wouldn't be named as part of a constellation by the population on the planet, since they wouldn't appear as such from the planet.

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Re: Making Enough Star Names for Very Large Galaxies

#89 Post by Dilvish »

MatGB wrote:There's a cluster Eek a, b, c & d at the top of the map (on the left), but in the bit I've just got to on the right there's another star called Eek on its own.
Thanks, good catch. There actually should be no chance of system name duplication with this new naming approach; but it still had a couple bugs that had to get ironed out. I think I have that fixed now in the version I just committed.
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Re: Making Enough Star Names for Very Large Galaxies

#90 Post by Ta'Lon »

I'm wondering if it would be possible to add the suffixes/greek symbols to the Star Names listing (now in the .en, etc. files), under a separate heading. The 'naming program' could then source that short list of names for the suffixes. That way, if a player wanted to change them out for, say, Alpha, Beta, Prime, Uno, Dos, etc. they could do so, without having to recompile the code.
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