DESIGN: Growth Category

[Zanzibar]

And um... I really don't know the XML format? However, if someone wants to convert them...

[Geoff the Medio]

And um... I really don't know the XML format? However, if someone wants to convert them...

Shockingly, this difficulty was anticipated, and a resource was created with which you may learn the format: http://www.freeorion.org/wiki/index.php ... fects#Tech

[noelte]

one thing before people start to do their xml coding. Our xml parser is case sensitive <name>NAME</name> isn't the same as <Name>NAME</Name>

so i would say we have to define the case of identifiers. For instance writing Tech with a uppercase T and name with a lower case is bad. Maybe we should agree on using lowercase only.

<Tech>
<name>NAME</name>
</Tech>


EDIT: one not removed

[Tyreth]

Refinement: Advanced Foreplay
Description: Proper scratching, biting, and name calling will help stimulate and arouse your partner, which allows climax to start earlier. However, Advanced Foreplay have been know to damage your health.
Effects: pop growth +10%, soldier health -1 HP
Prequisite: Laser Whips

Contributions like this are not appropriate. Please don't cover things that don't fit. A description and "advance" like this is hardly appropriate in a space opera.

[Prokonsul Piotrus]

And um... I really don't know the XML format? However, if someone wants to convert them...

Shockingly, this difficulty was anticipated, and a resource was created with which you may learn the format: http://www.freeorion.org/wiki/index.php ... fects#Tech

Unfortunately this guide stops at Effect Group. Since I am not official project memeber I don't want to change official wiki pages, but I suggest sb adds to this page this (from same document):

<EffectsGroup>
<scope>SCOPE</scope>
<activation>ACTIVATION</activation>
<effects>
EFFECT0
EFFECT1
...
EFFENTN
</effects>
</EffectsGroup>

And expands on scope, activation and effect syntax with examples, so ppl like me with little programing experience can understand this. Let's face it: I am a lamer. And I doubt I am alone here, otherwise everybody would be posting in XML which is not really happening.... :>

[Geoff the Medio]

Unfortunately this guide stops at Effect Group. Since I am not official project memeber I don't want to change official wiki pages, but I suggest sb adds to this page this (from same document):

Huh? You want something that's already on the page added to the page again? Why can't you scroll up to read it? Or did you just mean that what is there should be extended as in the following:

And expands on scope, activation and effect syntax...

Below the <EffectsGroup> XML format, there is a list of parameters, starting with:

Code: Select all

Param Types:
SCOPE Condition
ACTIVATION Condition

This means that you replace the appearance of "SCOPE" in the XML for an Effects Group with a Condition, the options for which are also described on the same page.

...with examples, so ppl like me with little programing experience can understand this.

Drek and I have made up what we think are well-formed examples. I suppose we could put them in the wiki, if that would help...

Edit: done. here: http://www.freeorion.org/wiki/index.php ... n_Examples

Though you didn't explicitly say it was, I feel I should say that I don't think that Tech XML descriptions really qualifies as programming... You don't need to implement algorithms or anything. It's not really much more involved than HTML... though there isn't any (esp. visual) feedback yet, which doesn't help...

Let's face it: I am a lamer. And I doubt I am alone here, otherwise everybody would be posting in XML which is not really happening.... :>

It could also be that writing up effects in XML is just a lot more tedious and limiting than writing short text descriptions of techs with effects that we don't have any way to implement.

Edit: In case anyone's reading, drek made up an effects and building / tech XML tutorial: http://www.freeorion.org/wiki/index.php/EffectsTutorial

[Geoff the Medio]

As was done with the other categories, here's my initial list of main trunk theories for Growth.

The biggest potential issue now, I think, is the sparsity of farming techs. I wasn't sure what else could be done with farming beside doing it as industrial farming, doing it in space, and eliminating the need for it altogether, and the various genetic-alteration type things that fall under other techs.

There are also a few suggestions that might not be appropriate for Growth, like Nanotech Cybernetics, Symbiotic Biology or Xeni-Hybridization. Presumably these would have some Growth-related benefits though...

Genetic Engineering (create, insert new genes and make transgenic organisms)
Industrial Farming (hydroponics, aeroponics, vehicles, crop rotation)
Planetary Ecology (population capacity, farming, undiscovered species)
Medical Pathology (immunology, epidemiology, pharmacology, surgery)
Orbital Farming (farms in space)
Environmental Encapsulation (building mini-ecologies in domed colonies)
Symbiotic Biology (whole > sum of parts, eg. trills, health benefits)
Genetic Medicine (therapy and modification of already living organisms)
Nanotech Medicine (medical treatment or "vaccination" with nanites)
Xenological Genetics (interplanetary transgenics & new gene creation)
Lifecycle Manipulation (faster growth, longer life & healthy adulthood)
Industrial Cloning (made to order colonists, soldiers, workers, scientists)
Nanotech Cybernetics (augmentation & enhancement, "We are Borg")
Xenological Hybridization (restructuring physiology & genetics, drastic changes)
Pure-Energy Metabolism (eliminate food, absorb radiaton or generate energy)

Edit: And because the pictures get more responses...


Edit again: Removed Population Sociology and rearranged things to look nicer

[Impaler]

Very nice work Geoff that looks like a fine Theoretical Sckeloton. It dose seem to me though that most of its is "goal" oriented. When I think of a Theory I think more of things like "Germ Theory" leading to aplications like "Penicilin" and "Vacines". I think a little name masaging with get things sounding more theoretical. Once we have a Theory Skeloton we can pin aplications to that and flesh out the remainder of the field.

This one goes under Life Cycle Manipulation

Name: Chemical Rest Substitutes (Aplication)
Prerequisites: Bio-chemistry & Nuro-Chemistry
Effect: Greatly incresses Population Work rate
"With the function of Brain and Body sufficiently well understood it now becomes possible to make safe chemicals that satisfy the rest requirments of both. Once perfected the complete elimination of physical and mental rest from society is inevitable resulting in a vastly more productive work force."
Refinment: Progressivly higher bonus to productivity caping at +50%

[Geoff the Medio]

It dose seem to me though that most of its is "goal" oriented. [...] I think a little name masaging with get things sounding more theoretical.

It would be helpful if you could give some specific suggestions or complaints about specific tech names that I've suggested...

Name: Chemical Rest Substitutes (Aplication)
Prerequisites: Bio-chemistry & Nuro-Chemistry
Effect: Greatly incresses Population Work rate
"With the function of Brain and Body sufficiently well understood it now becomes possible to make safe chemicals that satisfy the rest requirments of both. Once perfected the complete elimination of physical and mental rest from society is inevitable resulting in a vastly more productive work force."
Refinment: Progressivly higher bonus to productivity caping at +50%

Could you resubmit that in proper XML format?

And is that really a growth tech? It doesn't make more people or food or make people healthier... Maybe it would be better in Production? Or under The Physical Brain in Learning?

[Geoff the Medio]

All the proposed Growth techs have been XMLified and have fluff eng_stringtable.txt entries written (as with the Learning techs...).

The XML is here:
http://www.freeorion.org/index.php/Tech ... n_progress

The stringtable stuff for techs is here:
http://www.freeorion.org/index.php/Eng_ ... n_progress

In both, the Growth stuff is below the Learning stuff, so you have to scroll down...

[Sapphire Wyvern]

As was done with the other categories, here's my initial list of main trunk theories for Growth.
Pure-Energy Metabolism (eliminate food, absorb radiaton or generate energy)

One question: why does Pure Energy Metabolism, which is a pinnacle Growth technology, rely on Fusion Generation, an introductory Production technology? If tech cost is based on height up the tree, rather than the number of techs learned to date, surely that requirement is entirely trivial; an empire with a pinnacle tech could learn an introductory Theory with their spare change. I would suggest either eliminating it entirely or replacing it with a dependency on a higher level Theory.

[Geoff the Medio]

It's not just the cost per turn that you have to worry about, it's also the time to research something. If someone just hasn't bothered to research Fusion Generation, they'd have to spend however many turns on it.

That said, it is really more of a 'fluff' prerequisite than a strategic one... as in it really wouldn't be difficult to get Fusion Generation before researching Pure Energy Metabolism if you planned ahead a few turns, but it still listed as a prereq because it makes sense in a 'story' sense.

That said, it could be changed if deemed offensive nonetheless.