DESIGN: Learning Category

Creation, discussion, and balancing of game content such as techs, buildings, ship parts.

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Impaler
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#91 Post by Impaler » Tue Jan 04, 2005 8:01 pm

I think Utilae may be onto something here, each tec catagory could have its own equaly important "Picacle" Tec (RoN has something like this with its 4 "Future Tecnologies" that did some very powerfull stuff).

To actualy achive the "Tecnology Win" aka Trancendence you must get all (or possibly just some) of these Pinacle tecnologies. If this were the case the top Learning Tec should be renamed something like "Infinate Logic" or "Non-Corporeal Thought" and "Trancedance" would be the name of the overall Victory Condition not any single Tecnology as it was in SMAC.

This would help to rebalance the Learning catagory in general as it would no-longer be paramount in winning the game. I think we should aim to have all the Catagories co-equal to the greatest extent possible. The use of Learning catagory for "super uber stuff" should be a fall back rather then a goal, if we cant get all the catogories equal then Learning will be the "Catch-all" for that imbalance but we don't actualy WANT it to be that way if we can avoid it (atleast thats my stance).
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Geoff the Medio
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#92 Post by Geoff the Medio » Tue Jan 04, 2005 8:42 pm

Impaler: The most recent version (above your last post) already does most of what you suggest. The top Learning tech, Singularity of Transcendence has "Transcendence" in the name, and requires high level techs from most of the other categories...

Each category also has one or more top level pinnacle techs

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Bastian-Bux
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#93 Post by Bastian-Bux » Wed Jan 05, 2005 9:36 am

So Singularity of Transcendence is actually the pinnacle of all tech categories, and only placed into learning to place it somewhere logical? ^^
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Geoff the Medio
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#94 Post by Geoff the Medio » Wed Jan 05, 2005 3:35 pm

I suppose you could look at it that way...

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Black_Dawn
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#95 Post by Black_Dawn » Sun Jan 09, 2005 9:19 pm

As he very correctly pointed out, research is affected by two things: personal genius (population) and usable ressources (money).
I think there is another important factor to consider: the prevalence/importance of particular sectors of society. In other words, military research should be boosted by a large military sector. Independant research institutions, at least in our society, tend to look at "big picture" problems such as high-energy physics and bio theory. These are usually areas wherein the private sector has little immediate interest. Actual products are usually brought to market by the private sector.

What I am attempting to suggest here is a MoO1-like system in which research outcome depends on the resources invested in each research sector, except the "investment" number will be tied to the actual power of the physical sector. For example, The proportion of of research "invested" in agricultural tech will be equal to the proportion of land/population alloted to agricultural use. Investment in the scientific sector will go mostly to the "learning" research category, with a smaller boost to all the other categories. Increasing investment to the research sector would increase this bonus and make discovery of "learning/theory" category stuff MUCH faster.

P.S. where are the current_science and max_science files located? I could not find them for reference.
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Geoff the Medio
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#96 Post by Geoff the Medio » Sun Jan 09, 2005 9:24 pm

Black_Dawn wrote:... proportion of of research "invested" in agricultural tech will be equal to the proportion of land/population alloted to agricultural use. Investment in the scientific sector will go mostly to the "learning" research category, with a smaller boost to all the other categories. Increasing investment to the research sector would increase this bonus and make discovery of "learning/theory" category stuff MUCH faster.
The current plan is for each tech to have a set cost / turn in research points (RP) and number of turns to research. The player would enqueue whichever techs s/he wishes to research, and as much RP as is available is applied (in order by queue) to techs. The amount of RP available is determined mostly by planets' populations and current research meters, though a few other sources might exist. There are (currently) no "types" of RP for each category, nor ways to alter the cost of techs (though that might change, I suppose).

Your suggestion might be possible, but it would probably need to be molded around the system as it is now... (Can you suggest how to do so?)
Black_Dawn wrote:P.S. where are the current_science and max_science files located? I could not find them for reference.
The what? There are meter values called "CurrentResearch" and "MaxResearch" on planets, and a "ResearchProduction" for empires as a whole, but I have no idea what "files" you're referring to...

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utilae
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#97 Post by utilae » Sun Jan 09, 2005 11:49 pm

Geoff the Medio wrote:
Black_Dawn wrote:P.S. where are the current_science and max_science files located? I could not find them for reference.
The what? There are meter values called "CurrentResearch" and "MaxResearch" on planets, and a "ResearchProduction" for empires as a whole, but I have no idea what "files" you're referring to...
There in game variables.

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Geoff the Medio
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#98 Post by Geoff the Medio » Mon Jan 10, 2005 8:16 pm

All the proposed Learning techs have been XMLified and have eng_stringtable.txt entries written.

The XML is here:
http://www.freeorion.org/index.php/Tech ... n_progress

The stringtable stuff for techs is here:
http://www.freeorion.org/index.php/Eng_ ... n_progress

Those pages also have all the XML for all the other categories, and tech name stringtable entries, but the descriptions aren't all done yet.

The XML is rather basic for the theories... just an arbitrary cost and time (more for later techs), the stringtable references, and appropriate prerequisites based on the suggested tech trees.
Last edited by Geoff the Medio on Wed Jan 12, 2005 3:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Black_Dawn
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#99 Post by Black_Dawn » Tue Jan 11, 2005 12:35 am

Aquitaine Said:
- no changes to current_science, or Geoff bites your head off ^^
- only small changes to max_science. If its more then +3 for a late tech you'll have to answer to me personally
I thought he meant design specification files I couldn't find. The things you linked seem to be what he he was talking about. Thanks.
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Geoff the Medio
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#100 Post by Geoff the Medio » Tue Jan 11, 2005 3:31 am

Black_Dawn wrote:I thought he meant design specification files I couldn't find. The things you linked seem to be what he he was talking about. Thanks.
... things I linked? If you mean the techs.xml and stringtable stuff, I don't think that's what he was referring to, as those hadn't been written yet at the time.

Maybe you should read:
http://www.freeorion.org/index.php/Effects
and
http://www.freeorion.org/index.php/EffectsTutorial

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