Twenty-first game on the multiplayer slow game server

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Daybreak
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Re: Twenty-first game on the multiplayer slow game server

#211 Post by Daybreak »

wobbly wrote: Thu Sep 29, 2022 10:12 pm
Daybreak wrote: Thu Sep 29, 2022 9:44 pm But both you Oberlus and Wobbly did not correct the above when I said it, stating 1 starlane costs 1 Fuel, which still meant the above scenario worked. Go on, reread the posts.
Yeah I'm rereading my posts. You thought fuel worked differently to how it is. No problem. BlueAward had the same confusion too. I pointed out that 1 starlane is 1 fuel. You said you didn't think it was in the pedia, I pointed out that it was. You then threw a tantrum about me attacking you and it's not the 1st time you've done this. So no, Daybreak. I stand by my original comment. I'm sick of it. Either don't get into arguments with people, or don't play the victim if people argue back. One or the other.
Did not throw a tantrum. I Did not understand, if I was trying to help why I have to put up with snide comments.

Not you attacking me and I did not mean you - apologise if that is the way it came across.

and it is not in the pedia, as BA pointed out. It basically just says you use fuel if you travel outside a supply line.

and "1 starlane is 1 fuel" or as Oberlus said it "1 starlane costs 1 fuel" still leaves the following two conditions as valid (Even if I now know that #1 condition is not valid)
1. That a ship with one fuel cant jump a starlane if the jump is 1.x away; and
2. That a ship with 2 fuel jumps a 1.x starlane, but only has one fuel deducted.

and I experienced #1 above and that is why I thought that way.

I thought you exeperienced the same thing.

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LienRag
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Re: Twenty-first game on the multiplayer slow game server

#212 Post by LienRag »

Someone's delegating for Endhu ?

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Oberlus
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Re: Twenty-first game on the multiplayer slow game server

#213 Post by Oberlus »

Daybreak, it is true (as wobbly showed to us with the screenshot) that the Pedia is not unambiguous.
Thanks to you we can improve that for others that will came after you. Thank you.
Daybreak wrote: Fri Sep 30, 2022 12:49 am Not you attacking me and I did not mean you - apologise if that is the way it came across.
So, if it is not wobbly, I guess you feel it is me who is attacking you. :roll:

Daybreak wrote: Fri Sep 30, 2022 12:49 am and "1 starlane is 1 fuel" or as Oberlus said it "1 starlane costs 1 fuel" still leaves the following two conditions as valid (Even if I now know that #1 condition is not valid)
1. That a ship with one fuel cant jump a starlane if the jump is 1.x away; and
2. That a ship with 2 fuel jumps a 1.x starlane, but only has one fuel deducted.
I guess here is the root of your trouble understanding all this:
There is no such thing as a 1.x starlanes. That is a void concept when you know FO and how it is implemented/programmed.
Each starlane counts as one starlane. One starlane is always one starlane.
A starlane is not a measure of distance, is an object in the galaxy, a line that connects two systems. That line can be longer or shorter, but will still be ONE line. Not 0.7, not 1.48, not 2. Just ONE starlane.

One graphical examples, trying to make sure you really understand, hopefully:
Sys_A <--starlane_A_B_length_50--> Sys_B <---------------------------------------------------------------------starlane_B_C_length_300-------------------------------------------------------------------------> Sys_C
There you have two starlanes. One is connecting systems A and B, and the other is connecting systems B and C.
A ship travelling from A to B will consume 1 fuel, because it is travelling ONE starlane, and will require only one turn to travel it if speed is greater or equal than 50.
A ship travelling from B to C will consume 1 fuel, because it is travelling a single ONE starlane, and will require several turns to travel it because length is huge. But only one fuel.

Daybreak wrote: Fri Sep 30, 2022 12:49 am and I experienced #1 above and that is why I thought that way.
I am going to argue with you here: you never experienced that. Hands down. The code of FreeOrion can't substract more than 1 fuel per jumped starlane, so it is impossible that you saw that. Period. I would me more inclined to believe you saw a flying saucer around Sidney than a ship getting subtracted more than 1 fuel per starlane in your computer.

If me telling you are wrong feels like I am attacking you, it's something I can't help you with, unless I just refrain from addressing you in the future, which would be awkward and a liability to play together. And I am certain it is nothing to apologize. If I am not disrespecting you, which I don't think I am, I can't apologize for being right when trying to help you understand the game when you make questions or suggestions based on false facts.

Daybreak wrote: Fri Sep 30, 2022 12:49 am if I was trying to help why I have to put up with snide comments.
The first time you said it, you were trying to help. After the third time you keep insisting on something you didn't see (you think you saw it, but you have no proofs), you are not trying to help, you are just trying to say quite loud "I am right". Not the case, but also not big deal, Daybreak. I've been wrong many times, and will keep being wrong many more times. The sooner I can rectify, the sooner I can feel OK (because no one likes to be wrong, to commit mistakes, it's understandable that many people react not very kindly when someone else points to them a mistake).

I get you don't like sarcastic comments. I can apologize for that (I do enjoy sarcasm when not trying to make someone feel bad, and that has its perils). But my comments are not intended to be malicious, and my sarcasm doesn't appear in my first or second replies, but after you start with your adamant actitude that, let me tell you this, is a quite annoying actitude.

Endhu
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Re: Twenty-first game on the multiplayer slow game server

#214 Post by Endhu »

LienRag wrote: Fri Sep 30, 2022 3:34 am Someone's delegating for Endhu ?
Seems that Daybreak will be the one. I won't be able to play from now (a little earlier than anticipated) up to Monday most likely.

Daybreak
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Re: Twenty-first game on the multiplayer slow game server

#215 Post by Daybreak »

wobbly wrote: Wed Sep 28, 2022 4:43 am
wobbly wrote: Tue Sep 27, 2022 8:16 pm UI Glitch on turn 60. I have a ship with enough fuel to move. Set the destination, works as normal, go on with the turn, come back to it, it now says ETA out of range. We'll see if it actually moves or not.
Did not move. For later reference its the "Moth" at Xudax delta and it displayed as having 1.0 fuel
I have seen the same thing Wobbly saw, however I thought it was normal. becuase it was 1.x away. I now know it is not.

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Oberlus
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Re: Twenty-first game on the multiplayer slow game server

#216 Post by Oberlus »

Daybreak wrote: Fri Sep 30, 2022 10:40 am I have seen the same thing Wobbly saw, however I thought it was normal. becuase it was 1.x away. I now know it is not.
What wobbly saw is not about 1.x starlanes. It's about 1.0 fuel not being 1.0 fuel.

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Re: Twenty-first game on the multiplayer slow game server

#217 Post by Ophiuchus »

Oberlus wrote: Fri Sep 30, 2022 10:54 am
Daybreak wrote: Fri Sep 30, 2022 10:40 am I have seen the same thing Wobbly saw, however I thought it was normal. becuase it was 1.x away. I now know it is not.
What wobbly saw is not about 1.x starlanes. It's about 1.0 fuel not being 1.0 fuel.
guys, just drop it
Any code or patches in anything posted here is released under the CC and GPL licences in use for the FO project.

Look, ma... four combat bouts!

Daybreak
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Re: Twenty-first game on the multiplayer slow game server

#218 Post by Daybreak »

Oberlus wrote: Fri Sep 30, 2022 10:54 am
Daybreak wrote: Fri Sep 30, 2022 10:40 am I have seen the same thing Wobbly saw, however I thought it was normal. becuase it was 1.x away. I now know it is not.
What wobbly saw is not about 1.x starlanes. It's about 1.0 fuel not being 1.0 fuel.
Exactly- now tell me again that I did not see it ever ever.

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Oberlus
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Re: Twenty-first game on the multiplayer slow game server

#219 Post by Oberlus »

Daybreak wrote: Fri Sep 30, 2022 6:58 pm Exactly- now tell me again that I did not see it ever ever.
I don't understand. I'll follow Ophiuchus suggestion.

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LienRag
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Re: Twenty-first game on the multiplayer slow game server

#220 Post by LienRag »

For information, after turning I gifted a ship, then tried to cancel that gift, and it caused a "segfault - core dumped".

After reloading the game, the ship wasn't marked as gifted.

Daybreak
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Re: Twenty-first game on the multiplayer slow game server

#221 Post by Daybreak »

LienRag wrote: Fri Sep 30, 2022 7:51 pm For information, after turning I gifted a ship, then tried to cancel that gift, and it caused a "segfault - core dumped".

After reloading the game, the ship wasn't marked as gifted.
Turn 73
Win 10

I tested it but it worked fine for me.
Gifted then ungifted
Gifted, clicked turn button, Revised button/ ungifted
Gifted, clicked turn button, Exited Game, Entered game, Revised button/ ungifted

Maybe Operating system?

wobbly
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Re: Twenty-first game on the multiplayer slow game server

#222 Post by wobbly »

So I'm after feedback on 2 issues:

The quantity of ancient guardians. Are there too many of these? There is a pull request to potentially replace some of the ancient guardians with other native species over here:

https://github.com/freeorion/freeorion/pull/4019

Kraken in the Ice/White Kraken. I got the white kraken down on turn 64, as I took my time. However I had the detection strength to see it by turn 9, it was unguarded 3 jumps from my capital and it has enough fuel range that I could of basically just parked it on o01eg's capital and said "try and play now".

Edit: For reference the earliest a kraken can appear is turn 30, the earliest a great kraken can appear is turn 60.

I said 2 issues, but I guess there's a 3rd: feedback on whether monster quantity and distance seem right with the new game rule.

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Oberlus
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Re: Twenty-first game on the multiplayer slow game server

#223 Post by Oberlus »

Yeah. kraken in the Ice unguarded is quite bad for balance (unless every player has one near his HW).
Kraken nests are also quite of a problem when they are not distrubuted uniformly (and they aren't). Could their acquisition be delayed a bit more, and their monster production when unowmed be increased a bit? That way, if you have a kraken nest near your HW, it will be more of a liability until acquired. The current state in which if you rush to it you can get a great advantage in combat is annoying in MP.

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Re: Twenty-first game on the multiplayer slow game server

#224 Post by wobbly »

Oberlus wrote: Sun Oct 02, 2022 7:57 am Kraken nests are also quite of a problem when they are not distrubuted uniformly (and they aren't). Could their acquisition be delayed a bit more, and their monster production when unowmed be increased a bit? That way, if you have a kraken nest near your HW, it will be more of a liability until acquired. The current state in which if you rush to it you can get a great advantage in combat is annoying in MP.
Certainly scriptable. 1 effect group for unowned, one for owned. Whether its cleanest, I'm unsure, but I wouldn't be bothered if it was right for balance reasons.

Daybreak
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Re: Twenty-first game on the multiplayer slow game server

#225 Post by Daybreak »

1) We talked about this before, when deciding to go Medium Monsters.

I believe we need an option to turn off nests and now white kraken as well in MP games, without affecting the monster setting.

Trying other settings may work, but there are too many variables to take into account like-
A weak player being stifled for longer
A strong player, still capturing early.
Oberlus wrote: Sun Oct 02, 2022 7:57 am Kraken nests are also quite of a problem when they are not distrubuted uniformly (and they aren't).
It was not just that either - it was also how many were produced under ownership - so far the other team have at least 7 produced, and we had 1.

2) Yes +1 for replacing some of the ancient guardians with natives

3) Distribution seemed ok but Oberlus was still in a smallish pocket.

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