Monster Detection Strength

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EricF
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Monster Detection Strength

#1 Post by EricF » Sun Oct 22, 2017 11:39 pm

How do I know a Monsters Detection Strength?
The Pedia lists their Detection Range, but not Strength.

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MatGB
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Re: Monster Detection Strength

#2 Post by MatGB » Mon Oct 23, 2017 12:27 am

For anything unowned, the range is the strength.

That probably needs to be better documented, I had to ask when redoing scripts for them awhileback and thought I'd put something in but knowing me I either forgot or put it somewhere less than useful.

(NB: the detection ranges for the guardians are deliberately fairly low, I keep meaning to up the Sentinel by 10 but you can get early game stealthed ships past Maintenance Ships and Sentries deliberately—or indeed use Flux troops to invade natives 'protected' by them)
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EricF
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Re: Monster Detection Strength

#3 Post by EricF » Mon Oct 23, 2017 1:36 am

MatGB wrote:For anything unowned, the range is the strength.
That's what I suspected, but yea, I couldn't find any documentation to confirm.
But that brings me to why I asked that question.
So why was my Flux Scout, with a stealth of 25, destroyed by a Monster with
a Detection of 20?

OK, I've read more info in the hull description and it seems that the 25 stealth
listed is not really accurate. Because the Flux hull has no internal slots does just
researching the stealth techs gain the +10 for each one? It's really not clear.

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Geoff the Medio
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Re: Monster Detection Strength

#4 Post by Geoff the Medio » Mon Oct 23, 2017 11:55 am

EricF wrote:So why was my Flux Scout, with a stealth of 25, destroyed by a Monster with
a Detection of 20?
What the scout fleet set to passive or aggressive?

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MatGB
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Re: Monster Detection Strength

#5 Post by MatGB » Mon Oct 23, 2017 3:07 pm

EricF wrote: So why was my Flux Scout, with a stealth of 25, destroyed by a Monster with
a Detection of 20?

OK, I've read more info in the hull description and it seems that the 25 stealth
listed is not really accurate. Because the Flux hull has no internal slots does just
researching the stealth techs gain the +10 for each one? It's really not clear.
This is my relatively new scripting, I really like it and the way it works but this is actually the first actual feedback on it since it went into master, so I'll try to make the wording more clear.

Second Q first: you get the +10 immediately you research each tech, I really wanted to test out refinement scripting for stealth so picked something that already had a weird stealth effect and made an underpowered bonus to see what I thought. Like I said, I like it.

First Q: the bonus is doubly conditional. 1) you have to be set to passive and 2) you have to be not in transit.

Weirdly, I've noticed that the bonus applies if you move along, say, an 80 length lane and finish there. But if you order a move to a follow on system so you get step 1, step 2, the bonus doesn't apply. I've not fully worked out why there but, given it's mostly for scouting that's not a major bind: basically you get the bonus if you stop moving that turn, and also it won't apply on arrival if you were in transit the previous turn.

So if the scout had a move past location order, it wouldn't have the bonus. In addition, if the lane was more than 80uu long and it took 2 turns to get there, you wouldn't get the bonus.
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EricF
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Re: Monster Detection Strength

#6 Post by EricF » Tue Oct 24, 2017 12:12 am

MatGB wrote: In addition, if the lane was more than 80uu long and it took 2 turns to get there, you wouldn't get the bonus.
OK, I've played some more and I understand where the initial 25 stealth comes from.
I also see that each of the stealth techs does add +10 stealth for each one researched.
I believe my Flux Scout was detected because of the situation quoted above.
Thanks for the explanation.

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MatGB
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Re: Monster Detection Strength

#7 Post by MatGB » Tue Oct 24, 2017 3:12 am

And thanks for pointing out it's not clear, given how much I like the way it works giving some character to an otherwise boring hull it needs to be explained well enough that someone not reading the scripts can at least predict behaviour, so Improve description of Spatial Flux Hull stealth effects · Issue #1826 · freeorion/freeorion is open: I'm busy at the moment, if anyone else fancies summarising my above explanation into the stringtable that'd be grand, else I'll get to it eventually.
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Any code or patches in anything posted here is released under the CC and GPL licences in use for the FO project.

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