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Re: Multiplayer slow game server

Posted: Fri Sep 13, 2019 8:13 pm
by JonCST
Magnate wrote:
Fri Sep 13, 2019 6:12 pm

> [...] the consequences of [clicking that button] are the subject of ongoing discussion.
> [...] I find [ current behaviour] uncomfortable[.] But I get that we don't want MP games severely unbalanced by early exits[.]

> So I have a couple of ideas:

> 1. [...] colonies start to evacuate (to nowhere, i.e. slow pop decline).
>2. When a player quits, his/her empire is run by a very specific "defeated" AI, which focuses solely on defense [...]
I feel that clicking that button should probably be disabled in a game with more than two non-AI players. When you sign up for a multi-player game, you make a commitment to see it to the end, even if it isn't turning out well for you. If you absolutely want to get out of the game, you can give your planets to other people. Then at least you've chosen an active strategy for giving up, rather than just "i can't be bothered".

If someone needs to leave due to Real Life issues, we should maybe make allowances for a substitute to take over.

If the program is going to allow players to abandon a game by clicking that button, without provision for substitution, then i like the idea of a purely defensive AI. One could argue about the best strategies for resisting conquest, but i believe it would still be better than "Shazam! You're all dead!".

I'd always assumed that button was for "conceeding" the inevitable, and having the courtesy to not force your opponent to go through the drudgery of the end-game. In a 3-or-more-way game, i still don't think it should be enabled.

Jon

Re: Multiplayer slow game server

Posted: Fri Sep 13, 2019 9:17 pm
by Magnate
Hmmm. I think it's ok to resign from a MP game when it's not fun for you any more. That's better than constantly missing turns, forcing everyone else to wait for the turn timer etc. But yes if you/we can't find an substitute, then I think a defensive AI is better than vanishing.

I think giving your planets/assets to [a friend/ally] is going to be too unbalancing. Best to make others fight over stuff.

Re: Multiplayer slow game server

Posted: Fri Sep 13, 2019 9:47 pm
by Magnate
All - I just worked out what happened that turn my orders didn't get uploaded - because it nearly happened again.

It's when you revise your orders. I turned, then noticed something and clicked Revise Orders - then I must have disconnected without clicking Turn again. I just caught myself this time, and clicked turn again before disconnecting.

Incidentally, I always disconnect by shutting the client using the X in the tip-right corner of the window. Perhaps we could have a little popup that says "you have not submitted your turn - exit anyway?" ....

Re: Multiplayer slow game server

Posted: Fri Sep 13, 2019 9:54 pm
by Oberlus
Magnate wrote:
Fri Sep 13, 2019 9:47 pm
I always disconnect by shutting the client using the X in the tip-right corner of the window
And that's why so often I see "Magnate entered the game" without the corresponding "Magnate left the game". Maybe it causes no problem at all doint it that way, but I prefer to use the standard ways :twisted: : check out in the empires window that I have the check-out symbol, "resign" (disconnect from server in this case) and exit game.

Re: Multiplayer slow game server

Posted: Sat Sep 14, 2019 12:18 am
by JonCST
Magnate wrote:
Fri Sep 13, 2019 9:47 pm
Incidentally, I always disconnect by shutting the client using the X in the tip-right corner of the window. Perhaps we could have a little popup that says "you have not submitted your turn - exit anyway?" ....
:shock:

viewtopic.php?p=96756#p96756

Re: Multiplayer slow game server

Posted: Sat Sep 14, 2019 7:16 am
by Magnate
Oh dear, something bad has happened. I just turned, and as I was the last I stayed logged on, and watched the turn process. It said "downloading and unpacking new game state" ... but it never finished. It would let me issue orders for the new turn, but the button still said "Revise Orders 68". So I disconnected and reconnected, and now I have just a black screen when joining the game ...

Re: Multiplayer slow game server

Posted: Sat Sep 14, 2019 7:43 am
by The Silent One
Same here...

Re: Multiplayer slow game server

Posted: Sat Sep 14, 2019 8:07 am
by o01eg
Magnate wrote:
Sat Sep 14, 2019 7:16 am
Oh dear, something bad has happened. I just turned, and as I was the last I stayed logged on, and watched the turn process. It said "downloading and unpacking new game state" ... but it never finished. It would let me issue orders for the new turn, but the button still said "Revise Orders 68". So I disconnected and reconnected, and now I have just a black screen when joining the game ...
I've restarted server. I forgot correct signal to get dump so I didn't get what happened. Log last line is about you entered the game.

Re: Multiplayer slow game server

Posted: Sat Sep 14, 2019 9:42 am
by o01eg
The Silent One wrote:
Fri Sep 13, 2019 2:09 pm
JonCST wrote:
Fri Sep 13, 2019 1:54 pm
Hmm. So, i was getting that intel because we [you and o01eg] were allies. I assume he conceded (rather than "resigned", since that word apparently doesn't mean what i think it does). Since we are no longer allies, i didn't get the intel that he no longer owns the planets?
Correct.
JonCST wrote:
Fri Sep 13, 2019 1:54 pm
And, presumably, the inhabited planets are now "natives", waiting to be conquered? Not building this, but regenerating shields, troops etc? What technology level would they fight at? Whatever o01eg had when they conceded?
No, all population and outposts are gone. Just buildings remain.
JonCST wrote:
Fri Sep 13, 2019 1:54 pm
Clearly, there's a lot i don't know about this. Is there documentation covering this somewhere that i can read?
The "Concede" option has been implemented only recently; but I have to say I find the current "burned earth" approach unsatisfying. How conceding works should be discussed in more detail.
Concede was discussed in this thread viewtopic.php?f=6&t=10912&p=91939 It was a quick way to ensure game doesn't wait for conceded player anymore.

Re: Multiplayer slow game server

Posted: Sat Sep 14, 2019 9:46 am
by o01eg
Magnate wrote:
Fri Sep 13, 2019 6:12 pm
2. When a player quits, his/her empire is run by a very specific "defeated" AI, which focuses solely on defence - all colonies have defence focus, all research is in blue defence techs, and all industry is spent on immobile defence platforms (which don't exist yet but hey). This will make conquering the defeated worlds more challenging than a regular AI that is trying to play fully, has a bit of immersive continuity, and the reward of the full pops. Maybe not too unbalancing for other players?
AI after player is very unstable. Also it requires RAM for AI process same of freeorion server process.

Re: Multiplayer slow game server

Posted: Sat Sep 14, 2019 9:52 am
by o01eg
JonCST wrote:
Fri Sep 13, 2019 8:13 pm
If someone needs to leave due to Real Life issues, we should maybe make allowances for a substitute to take over.
Delegation will be supported next game, maybe I've even implement it this game.

Re: Multiplayer slow game server

Posted: Sat Sep 14, 2019 10:31 am
by o01eg
I've updated the server. It still is based on the same version so you don't need to update the client.
I made some preparation for delegation support and team support, last one waits for https://github.com/freeorion/freeorion/pull/2543 to be merged.
I added notification the player who last didn't make his turn and added turn number to this and new turn notification.

Re: Multiplayer slow game server

Posted: Sat Sep 14, 2019 12:42 pm
by Magnate
Hi all,

Can someone point me towards a thread about Supply? I'm getting very frustrated in this game because JonCST is managing to disrupt my supply lines with cloaked colonies: despite me having armed ships in every system, they're not linking my supply to those systems shared with him. I don't understand why - what do I need to do? If two un-allied players share a system, what determines who gets the supply connection to neighbouring systems?

Re: Multiplayer slow game server

Posted: Sat Sep 14, 2019 1:03 pm
by The Silent One
Magnate wrote:
Sat Sep 14, 2019 12:42 pm
I'm getting very frustrated in this game because JonCST is managing to disrupt my supply lines with cloaked colonies: despite me having armed ships in every system, they're not linking my supply to those systems shared with him. I don't understand why - what do I need to do? If two un-allied players share a system, what determines who gets the supply connection to neighbouring systems?
To disrupt his supply you need to be at war with him.

Re: Multiplayer slow game server

Posted: Sat Sep 14, 2019 1:10 pm
by Magnate
The Silent One wrote:
Sat Sep 14, 2019 1:03 pm
To disrupt his supply you need to be at war with him.
Ok but how can he disrupt mine when he is not at war with me? What is determining the primacy of supply in the first place? I have a colony in the system, an armed ship in orbit, another armed ship in orbit at the adjacent system, and yet still the supply is his and not mine ...?