Thirteenth game on the multiplayer slow game server

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swaq
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Re: Thirteenth game on the multiplayer slow game server

#91 Post by swaq »

ThinkSome wrote: Wed Nov 11, 2020 8:44 pm Another turn (107), another battle with no losses. 10 dead organic warships (2k HP total) to 0 ours. Looks like swaq jumped the slow fleet ahead but left the fast ones to follow next turn. But we jumped at the same time. Though, honestly, we would have won even with all his fleet in one piece. Our bombers were guaranteed to deal 4000 damage even if they are all immidiatelly shot down. Losing a few carriers would be, however, highly likely. But we decided to hold off for a turn to encourage swaq to do the mistake of splitting his fleet.
I realized in retrospect I should have combined them all into one fleet so they wouldn't be split up. Stopped caring long ago though.

ThinkSome wrote: Wed Nov 11, 2020 8:44 pm
swaq wrote: Wed Nov 11, 2020 4:49 am After our first encounter where you somehow wiped our fleets with inferior forces I was expecting to lose every subsequent encounter. I'm just surprised that in that latest big battle that you sustained zero loses. Pretty ridiculous RNG.
swaq wrote: Wed Nov 11, 2020 2:26 pm There were only two encounters (out of 5 or 6?) that seemed to have noticeably bad RNG. I think it was turn 96 where Ophiuchus's empire lost all 11 ships and destroyed 0. One of the contributing factors was first turn stealth because the Ophiuchus empire was still at 10 detection and there were no swaq empire ships in the system.
My sim was quite on point about the results. My carriers are heavily-armored and there were a lot of them. Stealth had nothing to do with this, as my ships were not cloaked in any way. What doomed the turn 96 ships was that you couldn't see our fleet gathering one <100uu jump ahead. But that's a strategic mistake and has nothing to do with bad rng or stealth.
Symbiotic hulls have 15 stealth by default. Ophiuchus had 10 detection so some ships went undetected in the first bout. I assumed you had a huge fleet amassing but we were already lost so had to risk going to battle.

ThinkSome wrote: Wed Nov 11, 2020 8:44 pm While I didn't really simulate this, I also think that fleet composition nailed the last coffin to you. You had a lot of strike fighters, which both launched late (last batch on bout3) and attacked my fighter chaff. Meanwhile I had dedicated bombers that were guaranteed to attack your ships and cheaper interceptors that successfully minimised damage from your strike fighters. I'd go as far as to say that one laser fighters interceptor carrier is worth two strike fighter carriers, as the launch rates are the same(2*2 vs 1*4).
That was Ophiuchus. I had built some flak for him after I took over but it was all in the slower asteroid hulls that you never had to fight... I (swaq empire) was building laser + flak + zortium ships but didn't have enough production to make a meaningful difference. Really it was impossible to keep up with your production.

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Oberlus
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Re: Thirteenth game on the multiplayer slow game server

#92 Post by Oberlus »

swaq wrote: Wed Nov 11, 2020 9:59 pmReally it was impossible to keep up with your production.
It was crazy from the begining...

ThinkSome
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Re: Thirteenth game on the multiplayer slow game server

#93 Post by ThinkSome »

swaq wrote: Wed Nov 11, 2020 9:59 pm Symbiotic hulls have 15 stealth by default. Ophiuchus had 10 detection so some ships went undetected in the first bout. I assumed you had a huge fleet amassing but we were already lost so had to risk going to battle.

That was Ophiuchus. I had built some flak for him after I took over but it was all in the slower asteroid hulls that you never had to fight... I (swaq empire) was building laser + flak + zortium ships but didn't have enough production to make a meaningful difference. Really it was impossible to keep up with your production.
I don't recall having many symbiotics. Most of my fleet was/is composed of SMH hulls. You and Ophi must have had enough production to keep up. Especially after T96 battle I went back to growth and queued up no warships.

My cloak scouts tell me that you two combined have at least as much PP as me.

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swaq
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Re: Thirteenth game on the multiplayer slow game server

#94 Post by swaq »

ThinkSome wrote: Wed Nov 11, 2020 10:21 pm
swaq wrote: Wed Nov 11, 2020 9:59 pm Symbiotic hulls have 15 stealth by default. Ophiuchus had 10 detection so some ships went undetected in the first bout. I assumed you had a huge fleet amassing but we were already lost so had to risk going to battle.

That was Ophiuchus. I had built some flak for him after I took over but it was all in the slower asteroid hulls that you never had to fight... I (swaq empire) was building laser + flak + zortium ships but didn't have enough production to make a meaningful difference. Really it was impossible to keep up with your production.
I don't recall having many symbiotics. Most of my fleet was/is composed of SMH hulls. You and Ophi must have had enough production to keep up. Especially after T96 battle I went back to growth and queued up no warships.

My cloak scouts tell me that you two combined have at least as much PP as me.
Oh good, then maybe if o01eg hadn't contributed anything we would have been even. Two empires versus one...

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Re: Thirteenth game on the multiplayer slow game server

#95 Post by ThinkSome »

swaq wrote: Wed Nov 11, 2020 10:47 pm Oh good, then maybe if o01eg hadn't contributed anything we would have been even. Two empires versus one...
He didn't. As I recall, the only warships I got from him were the two starting frigates and a cruiser. It was two empire versus one, you and Ophiuchus versus me for most of the game.

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Re: Thirteenth game on the multiplayer slow game server

#96 Post by Oberlus »

Trith OP?

ThinkSome
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Re: Thirteenth game on the multiplayer slow game server

#97 Post by ThinkSome »

4 ~medium good planets in my vicinity and 3 gas gen systems. I had more PP than both my teammates for most of the game.

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Re: Thirteenth game on the multiplayer slow game server

#98 Post by wobbly »

There was definitely more gyschae there at least up till the point it mattered.Then again there were 3 of my ships down there too. A pair of static carriers and a static version of the cruiser. At one point I had more heavy ships in the south then in the north. Once that moved south I only had a small force harassing Oberlus in the north. The frigate, cruiser, organic frigate and a static fighter carrier. The larger northern fleet was built in the time it took for Oberlus to push forward.

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Re: Thirteenth game on the multiplayer slow game server

#99 Post by wobbly »

Trith scout sighted turn 7 at Asvins alpha. So besides the fact you and Swaq were way too close (especially considering relative detection range of Trith and Etty) that really needed to be dealt with immediately. Its a huge radiated and a small radiated. A foothold there should not have been allowed. Even without the planets that space is too close to the Etty homeworld, an attempt should of been made to push them back behind the semi-bottle neck. Not sure where Swaq put down the 1st outpost but it was possibly better to grab the small radiated before the trith can. Yeah its expensive to have an outpost that isn't a colony, but the huge radiated will fit a fair few abaddoni later, so its only a temporary setback. Might still not of worked, at the end of the day Trith are too overpowered unless you are giving them to a beginner to even things up.

See the 50 uu circle? An abbadoni scout here can see both approach lines though a fast enough ship will slip through the southern system and possibly even the north one by going NW and taking the long way round. (which requires long fuel or supply and is much slower)
bottleneck.png
bottleneck.png (312.47 KiB) Viewed 165 times

o01eg
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Re: Thirteenth game on the multiplayer slow game server

#100 Post by o01eg »

Gentoo Linux x64, gcc-9.3, boost-1.74.0
Ubuntu Server 18.04 x64, gcc-7.4, boost-1.65.1
Welcome to the slow multiplayer game at freeorion-lt.dedyn.io.Version 0.4.10.1.
Donations are welcome: BTC:14XLekD9ifwqLtZX4iteepvbLQNYVG87zK

ThinkSome
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Re: Thirteenth game on the multiplayer slow game server

#101 Post by ThinkSome »

swaq wrote: Wed Nov 11, 2020 4:49 am
ThinkSome wrote: Tue Nov 10, 2020 8:14 pm Today must be the 4th time that we destroyed swaq/ophi fleet without large losses. And I see another fleet gathering near celtsi. This time including wobbly's ships ;)
Should go easier now with swaq's economy scattered and in shambles. Also relieves poor Oberlus from having to deal with ophi-reinforced wobbly.

To quote swaq:

Code: Select all

<swaq> fudge
<swaq> 0 lost!!!?
<swaq> What the hell?
This is what I think lots for...
It's hard to lose when your nearest enemy doesn't establish their second colony until turn 15... I seriously can't think of a previous game where I've had this terrible of a start.

After our first encounter where you somehow wiped our fleets with inferior forces I was expecting to lose every subsequent encounter. I'm just surprised that in that latest big battle that you sustained zero loses. Pretty ridiculous RNG.
Was this turn 95? If so, here's the simulation results:

Code: Select all

Fleet my fleet's stats:
  num trials: 10000
  0 dead ships: 4708 or 47.08%
  1 dead ships: 4067 or 40.67%
  2 dead ships: 1085 or 10.85%
  3 dead ships: 135 or 1.35%
  4 dead ships: 5 or 0.05%
  5 dead ships: 0 or 0.0%
  6 dead ships: 0 or 0.0%
  7 dead ships: 0 or 0.0%
  8 dead ships: 0 or 0.0%
  9 dead ships: 0 or 0.0%
  10 dead ships: 0 or 0.0%
  11 dead ships: 0 or 0.0%
  12 dead ships: 0 or 0.0%
  13 dead ships: 0 or 0.0%
  my fleet average dead armed ships 6662: 0.6662
  chance of more than one dead troop ship:0.0
Fleet enemy fleet's stats:
  num trials: 10000
  0 dead ships: 0 or 0.0%
  1 dead ships: 0 or 0.0%
  2 dead ships: 0 or 0.0%
  3 dead ships: 0 or 0.0%
  4 dead ships: 0 or 0.0%
  5 dead ships: 0 or 0.0%
  6 dead ships: 0 or 0.0%
  7 dead ships: 0 or 0.0%
  8 dead ships: 0 or 0.0%
  9 dead ships: 0 or 0.0%
  10 dead ships: 55 or 0.55%
  11 dead ships: 9945 or 99.45%
  enemy fleet average dead armed ships 49972: 4.9972
  chance of more than one dead troop ship:0.0

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swaq
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Re: Thirteenth game on the multiplayer slow game server

#102 Post by swaq »

Cyan - ThinkSome
Blue - Oberlus
Green - o01eg
Magenta - Ophiuchus
Yellow - swaq
Burgundy - wobbly

Turn 30 graphs first:
fo13_turn30_population.png
fo13_turn30_population.png (37.06 KiB) Viewed 138 times
fo13_turn30_production.png
fo13_turn30_production.png (34.29 KiB) Viewed 138 times
fo13_turn30_research.png
fo13_turn30_research.png (48.28 KiB) Viewed 138 times

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swaq
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Re: Thirteenth game on the multiplayer slow game server

#103 Post by swaq »

Turn 110 graphs:
fo13_population.png
fo13_population.png (86.4 KiB) Viewed 137 times
fo13_production.png
fo13_production.png (84.32 KiB) Viewed 137 times
fo13_research.png
fo13_research.png (95.88 KiB) Viewed 137 times
fo13_colonies.png
fo13_colonies.png (63.23 KiB) Viewed 137 times
fo13_military.png
fo13_military.png (80.63 KiB) Viewed 137 times

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swaq
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Re: Thirteenth game on the multiplayer slow game server

#104 Post by swaq »

As you can see, the game was over from the roll of the dice at universe generation.

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swaq
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Re: Thirteenth game on the multiplayer slow game server

#105 Post by swaq »

Setting aside the planet RNG I agree with the sentiments that Trith needs to be nerfed. They start with 96% as much research as Chato/Scylior but nearly double the production (+86%)! They can colonize poor planets immediately and hostile planets after just Symbiotic Biology. Plus they get telepathy which is already really unbalanced. Their only nerfs are Xenophobic and narrow planet tolerance.

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