Newbie experiences (long)

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fotmfb22
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Newbie experiences (long)

#1 Post by fotmfb22 »

I'm about half a dozen games in now playing on last week's PPA version, not counting a bunch of games that I've halted within the first 10 turns. I'm not sure it means a lot from a complete neophyte, but here are some thoughts on my experiences so far.
  1. It's really fun! I honestly did not expect anything this good.
  2. In my present state of newbiehood, how I fare is very dependent on the game seed. I've got a good game going now, and I'm pretty optimistic about it, but I've had plenty where I got a bum initial roll which set me up with no expansion room, surrounded by strong monsters and a lot of empty sectors or trash tier planets. Other times, I get a sweet starting spot, and the enemies get a bad spot. Maybe this will moderate out after I get better, but for now I feel like a good seed is everything. That's why I stop a lot of games after a few rounds of scouting. I was imagining some kind of fairness heuristic to pick initial starting systems. Like calculate a "goodness" parameter for each civ, and if it's too far out of balance, pick another starting system to avoid severely penalizing or rewarding anyone.
  3. It took me 5 games before I noticed that I could click on the "Combat" word in the SitRep and get a lot of cool info about battles. Studying that has cleared up a lot of confusion I had about combat. Not all of it, mind you, but a lot :lol:
  4. I like that you can save ship designs and re-use them in a subsequent game. Did anyone consider a similar feature to queue up a set of initial research? My early picks seem to be the same, to rush cheap RP and PP upgrades. It would be nice to click a button and dump in a set I've saved before, rather than having to hunt them all down each time.
  5. I've read (on the forum) that in combat, target choice is random. I won't argue that's the best possible way, but it's actually not terrible IMO. It means that smaller low-structure ships are not useless in big fights. If targeting could simply one-shot all the small ships on the first round, that would render anything but the biggest dog much less survivable. RP-wise, you can imagine this captures the random nature of a chaotic battle.
  6. I'm excited to see where the game will go. There's a lot that could be done with new kinds of systems for int or ext ship slots that would fit the spirit of what's there now. I'm brimming with ideas, but I'm sure the devs are exhausted by newbies brimming with ideas, so I'll SU :wink:
  7. I'm still confused by invading enemy planets. I made some troop ships and took over some of the AI's planets. But every turn after that, there was "ground combat" at that location. For like 100 turns in a row after I captured it, and it never produced anything. Was that because of low happiness? If so, how can I make them happy? I really didn't want the planet. More to deny it to the AI civ. I tried to depopulate it, but that didn't get me past this.
  8. A lot of my games (1Hum+5AI) were 2 at peace, 3 enemies. I'm not sure how to approach that, because if we're broadly similar on PP, I'm at a 3 to 1 disadvantage. I really struggle with multi-front fights since each front brings as much PP as I do, and I need my entire PP just to keep one front from collapsing.
  9. It's really fun.

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Oberlus
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Re: Newbie experiences (long)

#2 Post by Oberlus »

fotmfb22 wrote: Wed Jul 06, 2022 12:01 amThere's a lot that could be done with new kinds of systems for int or ext ship slots that would fit the spirit of what's there now. I'm brimming with ideas, but I'm sure the devs are exhausted by newbies brimming with ideas, so I'll SU :wink:
Don't SU. Maybe search a bit in the forum before posting because not seldom the same suggestion is repeated through the years. But good new ideas could be lost if you just SU.
But every turn after that, there was "ground combat" at that location. For like 100 turns in a row after I captured it, and it never produced anything. Was that because of low happiness? If so, how can I make them happy? I really didn't want the planet. More to deny it to the AI civ. I tried to depopulate it, but that didn't get me past this.
Yes, stability under 0 means rebellion in the world, so ground combat.
There are policies that affect stability, many. Protection focus gives +15 stability. Stuff like being disconnected from capital can also punish stability. Species have likes and dislikes for policies, buildings and planet foci.
Study the bonuses and maluses shown when hovering over the stability icon of a planet.

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LienRag
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Re: Newbie experiences (long)

#3 Post by LienRag »

fotmfb22 wrote: Wed Jul 06, 2022 12:01 am I'm about half a dozen games in now playing on last week's PPA version, not counting a bunch of games that I've halted within the first 10 turns. I'm not sure it means a lot from a complete neophyte, but here are some thoughts on my experiences so far.
  1. It's really fun! I honestly did not expect anything this good.
  2. In my present state of newbiehood, how I fare is very dependent on the game seed. I've got a good game going now, and I'm pretty optimistic about it, but I've had plenty where I got a bum initial roll which set me up with no expansion room, surrounded by strong monsters and a lot of empty sectors or trash tier planets. Other times, I get a sweet starting spot, and the enemies get a bad spot. Maybe this will moderate out after I get better, but for now I feel like a good seed is everything. That's why I stop a lot of games after a few rounds of scouting. I was imagining some kind of fairness heuristic to pick initial starting systems. Like calculate a "goodness" parameter for each civ, and if it's too far out of balance, pick another starting system to avoid severely penalizing or rewarding anyone.
Nice to see your enthusiasm !
Balancing starting position is something discussed, yes. Not a priority for now, though.
Note that you can choose how many monsters and specials you want (just don't use Quick Start, but Single Player, where you'll get a screen with all the options to choose from).
Also, harder starts are a challenge that can be interesting too.
Few monsters are entirely impossible to bypass.


fotmfb22 wrote: Wed Jul 06, 2022 12:01 am
  1. It took me 5 games before I noticed that I could click on the "Combat" word in the SitRep and get a lot of cool info about battles. Studying that has cleared up a lot of confusion I had about combat. Not all of it, mind you, but a lot :lol:
Yeah, we need a better tutorial.
You could do it, by the way.


fotmfb22 wrote: Wed Jul 06, 2022 12:01 am
  1. I'm still confused by invading enemy planets. I made some troop ships and took over some of the AI's planets. But every turn after that, there was "ground combat" at that location. For like 100 turns in a row after I captured it, and it never produced anything. Was that because of low happiness? If so, how can I make them happy? I really didn't want the planet. More to deny it to the AI civ. I tried to depopulate it, but that didn't get me past this.
Yes, they are produced by low happiness. Hover over the happiness meter to see what causes it.
Experiment with Policies to see which can help with those planet's happiness, too.


fotmfb22 wrote: Wed Jul 06, 2022 12:01 am
  1. I like that you can save ship designs and re-use them in a subsequent game. Did anyone consider a similar feature to queue up a set of initial research? My early picks seem to be the same, to rush cheap RP and PP upgrades. It would be nice to click a button and dump in a set I've saved before, rather than having to hunt them all down each time.
It's been asked many times. The thing is that we don't want the tech tree to be a no-brainer, so we don't want a tech tree where the starting research list is a "one size fits all"; you're supposed to think hard at start to figure out which is the research queue that is optimal for your situation.
Yes, that's not what we have now, but that's where we want to go.
As a stop-gap measure, a way to import a research list could be implemented if someone (reads : you) has the time and will to do so.


fotmfb22 wrote: Wed Jul 06, 2022 12:01 am
  1. A lot of my games (1Hum+5AI) were 2 at peace, 3 enemies. I'm not sure how to approach that, because if we're broadly similar on PP, I'm at a 3 to 1 disadvantage. I really struggle with multi-front fights since each front brings as much PP as I do, and I need my entire PP just to keep one front from collapsing.
The enemy AI is easy to defeat military once you figure its weaknesses, which are numerous.


fotmfb22 wrote: Wed Jul 06, 2022 12:01 am
  1. I'm excited to see where the game will go. There's a lot that could be done with new kinds of systems for int or ext ship slots that would fit the spirit of what's there now. I'm brimming with ideas, but I'm sure the devs are exhausted by newbies brimming with ideas, so I'll SU :wink:
Please don't ! We need a lot of new ideas.
And an enthusiastic newbie has a fresh look at the game, something we can't have after playing it for so long.
What you should do instead is list your new ideas, check in the forum if they have already be discussed (like importing the research list), and if they have not, write them in the right forum category.
Of course what is important then is to listen when we tell you that this idea has this or that flaw, or that is already has been discussed before and you should at least read the discussion before arguing for it, or whatever.
What is annoying isn't newbies brimming with ideas, but newbies who can't understand that we already made design decisions (well, collective we, I didn't personally) and that ideas that go against established core design principles of FreeOrion are not going to be implemented.
Not to say that you should accept all our rebuttal, but try to be sure to understand why we shoot down one (or many !) of your ideas before trying to defend them.

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Oberlus
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Re: Newbie experiences (long)

#4 Post by Oberlus »

LienRag, some corrections:
LienRag wrote: Wed Jul 06, 2022 6:53 am Balancing starting position is something discussed, yes. Not a priority for now, though.
More like there is no one available with the skills and time for it.
LienRag wrote: Wed Jul 06, 2022 6:53 am Yeah, we need a better tutorial.
You could do it, by the way.
LienRag, you could do it better, by the way.
LienRag wrote: Wed Jul 06, 2022 6:53 am
fotmfb22 wrote: Wed Jul 06, 2022 12:01 am I like that you can save ship designs and re-use them in a subsequent game. Did anyone consider a similar feature to queue up a set of initial research?
It's been asked many times. The thing is that we don't want the tech tree to be a no-brainer, so we don't want a tech tree where the starting research list is a "one size fits all"; you're supposed to think hard at start to figure out which is the research queue that is optimal for your situation.
Yes, that's not what we have now, but that's where we want to go.
As a stop-gap measure, a way to import a research list could be implemented if someone (reads : you) has the time and will to do so.
LienRag, you are confused here.
There is no objection to have a way to save and load research queues. Having different saved tech trees for different species, strategies, starting positions, etc. is a good thing to do. It has nothing to do with stop-gaps of any sort.
And it is not true that a single research queue is good for every game.
Any of this could be improved, though, if someone with the time and will (reads: you)...

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Re: Newbie experiences (long)

#5 Post by Ophiuchus »

fotmfb22 wrote: Wed Jul 06, 2022 12:01 am [*] I'm still confused by invading enemy planets. I made some troop ships and took over some of the AI's planets. But every turn after that, there was "ground combat" at that location. For like 100 turns in a row after I captured it, and it never produced anything. Was that because of low happiness? If so, how can I make them happy? I really didn't want the planet. More to deny it to the AI civ. I tried to depopulate it, but that didn't get me past this.
yes, both effects (riots and no output) depend on stability. that is a complicated topic, so i skip it ;)

in order to get rid of a planet you can evacuate it until no one is left, or build an independence decree, then the planet becomes neutral.

and welcome to the forums :mrgreen:
Any code or patches in anything posted here is released under the CC and GPL licences in use for the FO project.

Look, ma... four combat bouts!

fotmfb22
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Re: Newbie experiences (long)

#6 Post by fotmfb22 »

Ophiuchus wrote: Wed Jul 06, 2022 9:37 am in order to get rid of a planet you can evacuate it until no one is left, or build an independence decree, then the planet becomes neutral.
Thanks! I'm trying the "independence" route in my current game and it is working well. (I'm still in the phase of learning what possibilities I even have). Independence requires some care of course, because if the planet goes indie it may disrupt a supply line I'm depending on. That just adds another layer of interest and strategy, so I like the dynamic.

I also just discovered that with the new Policy system in the weekly builds, I can unlock a regional admin building to get more stability in far-flung systems. I haven't got far enough in my current game to do it yet, but I plan to try it when I have the pre-reqs.

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Re: Newbie experiences (long)

#7 Post by fotmfb22 »

Oberlus wrote: Wed Jul 06, 2022 8:13 am
LienRag wrote: Wed Jul 06, 2022 6:53 am Balancing starting position is something discussed, yes. Not a priority for now, though.
More like there is no one available with the skills and time for it.
At the moment I am waaaaaay too inexperienced with the game to have enough holistic view for that, but I do know C++. In the long run, maybe I could try something like that my own private branch as an experiment. Unfortunately I have many coding irons in the fire already, but in the future, who knows.

BTW I have noticed all the nice techlore eastereggs, like finding Planet Knuth, and I believe I ran across a ship called the Eternal September.

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Re: Newbie experiences (long)

#8 Post by Oberlus »

fotmfb22 wrote: Wed Jul 06, 2022 3:24 pm At the moment I am waaaaaay too inexperienced with the game to have enough holistic view for that, but I do know C++. In the long run, maybe I could try something like that my own private branch as an experiment. Unfortunately I have many coding irons in the fire already, but in the future, who knows.
That would be just great.
BTW, galaxy generation is done mostly in Python, although C++ knowledge is useful to understand the interactions with backend.

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LienRag
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Re: Newbie experiences (long)

#9 Post by LienRag »

fotmfb22 wrote: Wed Jul 06, 2022 3:24 pm At the moment I am waaaaaay too inexperienced with the game to have enough holistic view for that, but I do know C++. In the long run, maybe I could try something like that my own private branch as an experiment. Unfortunately I have many coding irons in the fire already, but in the future, who knows.

BTW I have noticed all the nice techlore eastereggs, like finding Planet Knuth, and I believe I ran across a ship called the Eternal September.
The techlore eastereggs as you say are very easy to contribute too, there's a list at the end of the text file, you can just add entries to it. Better check here if you have doubts about some (copyrighted names are a no, it's a bit more fuzzy for edge cases; and I'm not sure that we would want something entirely ridiculous either), though.

If you know C++ but not the game, one thing you probably could do to help is adding this button.

As Oberlus noted, many of the things I suggested you do I could do myself (they're just not my priorities), but this button I can't, since I don't know C++ at all.

Obviously, it depends entirely on your interest in doing that, I'm not putting pressure on you here, just suggesting possibilities should you want to explore them.

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