Hostile Planet Takeover

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Gray Area
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Re: Hostile Planet Takeover

#76 Post by Gray Area »

Grummel7 wrote: Sun Jul 31, 2022 1:59 pm
Gray Area wrote: Sun Jul 31, 2022 12:31 pm I've attached the latest AI log below.
Gray Area,

This log is very short, I guess you have reloaded the game just before you copied it.
The AI logs are all emptied whenever you start or load a game, they only contain the logs of the current session.
The session doesn't even contains a complete turn:
07:07:20.605823 {0x000026a8} [info] python : generate_orders.py:136 : The AIstate indicates that this turn was already played.
07:07:20.605823 {0x000026a8} [info] python : generate_orders.py:141 : Aborting new order generation. Orders from savegame will still be issued.
If you let it run for one turn, I may be able to see how it evaluated Eros α II.
Grummel7,

Try this new AI log. I ran the game for about ten (10) more turns before copying it.

Gray Area
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New AI_6.7z
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Gray Area
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Re: Hostile Planet Takeover

#77 Post by Gray Area »

LienRag wrote: Sun Jul 31, 2022 3:19 pm Gray Area : if you have a savegame from before you conquered the planet, but at a time where you can see it, you can hover over the Population meter and it will tell you what was the Target (if it's below 0 then there's a bug indeed) and what were the modifiers.
If the modifiers (without growth specials) put the Target above 1 then there was no bug, you just didn't have the technologies needed to keep Chatos living on that planet, but the AI had.
If the modifiers put the Target above 0 only with the growth Specials, then grummel is to blame for that... :mrgreen:
LienRag,

I went back to before I conquered the planet, and sent in a Scout Ship to make it visible. Once again, even though there are enemy ships in orbit around the planet, the population is still already dead. There are still 12.0 Ground Troops there, but no regular population.

Below is a newer screenshot, but there is no new information to be had:

Gray Area
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FreeOrion - Eros Alpha II Before Invasion Ver. II.jpg
FreeOrion - Eros Alpha II Before Invasion Ver. II.jpg (828.36 KiB) Viewed 1274 times

wobbly
Cosmic Dragon
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Re: Hostile Planet Takeover

#78 Post by wobbly »

Gray Area wrote: Sun Jul 31, 2022 4:11 pm I went back to before I conquered the planet, and sent in a Scout Ship to make it visible. Once again, even though there are enemy ships in orbit around the planet, the population is still already dead. There are still 12.0 Ground Troops there, but no regular population.
Looks like an ordinary outpost:
Outpost.png
Outpost.png (45.52 KiB) Viewed 1272 times

Gray Area
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Re: Hostile Planet Takeover

#79 Post by Gray Area »

wobbly wrote: Sun Jul 31, 2022 4:18 pm
Gray Area wrote: Sun Jul 31, 2022 4:11 pm I went back to before I conquered the planet, and sent in a Scout Ship to make it visible. Once again, even though there are enemy ships in orbit around the planet, the population is still already dead. There are still 12.0 Ground Troops there, but no regular population.
Looks like an ordinary outpost:

Outpost.png
wobbly,

To date, I've only played as a human. I generally use Outpost Ships to take possession of planets, etc. And, after simply taking possession of a planet, from my limited experience, I've not seen any main population, or any Troops appear on that planet.

After using an Outpost Ship, in order to place a population on a planet, I've had to choose between colonizing the planet with either humans, or Exobots. I've then selected either Colony of Human, or Colony of Exobot from the planet's Producible Items Screen to colonize it.

It generally it takes around five (5) turns for colonization to become complete. And, during that time, I have not observed any main population, or Troops appear on the planet until the colonization cycle has completed itself.

I've just run a test by colonizing a Small Terran Planet with humans. At the end of the colonization cycle, the human population was 1.00, with a target population of 12:00. At the same time, Troops also appeared with a population of 6.00, and a maximum target of 12.4.

Also, if I send Troop Ships to an unoccupied planet, nothing happens other than my ships simply sit there orbiting the planet. No Invade Button appears, so I can not land Troops on the unoccupied planet.

The point I'm trying to make is that I'm pretty sure there are only two (2) possibilities for Troops to be on Eros Alpha II, as follows:

1. The Chato completely wiped out the planet's original species, invaded with their own Troops, and took possession of the planet. But, they did not colonize the planet to repopulate it.

2. The Chatos originally colonized the planet with their own species. But, as the planet's environment is unsuitable for their species, the main population died off first, leaving their Troops behind as of the time of these investigations.

Again, in the original game I played, and unfortunately deleted, Eros Alpha II had a main population of around 3.6, as well as 12.0 Troops. And, before I could even get my own Troop Ships to the planet, both the original main population, and the original Troops died. After that, all I had to do was take possession of the planet with an Outpost Ship, and then colonize it with Exobots.

Gray Area

Gray Area
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Re: Hostile Planet Takeover

#80 Post by Gray Area »

wobbly wrote: Sun Jul 31, 2022 12:24 pm
Gray Area wrote: Sun Jul 31, 2022 12:17 pm
Oberlus wrote: Sun Jul 31, 2022 7:28 am Gray Area, I haven't seen the AI colonizing planets where it can't surive. Could be a bug that you found and that happens in every game, but it would be strange that something so obvious and reproducible wasn't spotted by other playtesters.

It would be necessary to have a save game of the situation before it happens, so the turn before you invade that planet, so that we can see everything that happens to produce the bug.
Oberlus,

I've been trying to attach a save game from before I invaded the planet. However, Firefox, my web browser, will not recognize the .sav file type. When I finally figure out what that problem is, I'll send the file.

Gray Area
zip the save file. The forum will only except certain extensions.
wobbly,

Thanks for the tip. Firefox still won't recognize the .sav file type, but zipping it solved two (2) problems for me.

Gray Area

Gray Area
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Re: Hostile Planet Takeover

#81 Post by Gray Area »

Oberlus wrote: Sun Jul 31, 2022 7:28 am Gray Area, I haven't seen the AI colonizing planets where it can't surive. Could be a bug that you found and that happens in every game, but it would be strange that something so obvious and reproducible wasn't spotted by other playtesters.

It would be necessary to have a save game of the situation before it happens, so the turn before you invade that planet, so that we can see everything that happens to produce the bug.
Oberlus,

Finally, here's the save game. I hope it helps.

Gray Area
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Grummel7
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Re: Hostile Planet Takeover

#82 Post by Grummel7 »

Gray Area wrote: Sun Jul 31, 2022 3:45 pm Try this new AI log. I ran the game for about ten (10) more turns before copying it.
The AI seems almost wiped out. It doesn't see the Eros systems anymore and so does not calculate values for it.

It is doing some monkey business, though. I'd be interested in a save file to analyse what it is doing here:

Code: Select all

11:30:07.610981 {0x00002d8c} [info] python : _table.py:129 : Production Queue Turn 227 before ProductionAI calls
11:30:07.610981 {0x00002d8c} [info] python : _table.py:129 : =================================================================================================================
11:30:07.611983 {0x00002d8c} [info] python : _table.py:129 : | Object                    | Location                     | Quantity | Progress    | Allocated PP | Turns left |
11:30:07.611983 {0x00002d8c} [info] python : _table.py:129 : =================================================================================================================
11:30:07.611983 {0x00002d8c} [info] python : _table.py:129 : | AD Starbase Mk. 1         | P_432<Fiorina I>             | 1x 4     | 8.6 / 58.8  | 18.0         | 12         |
11:30:07.611983 {0x00002d8c} [info] python : _table.py:129 : | AD Starbase Mk. 1         | P_432<Fiorina I>             | 1x 4     | 4.6 / 58.8  | 0.0          | 24         |
11:30:07.611983 {0x00002d8c} [info] python : _table.py:129 : | AD Starbase Mk. 1         | P_432<Fiorina I>             | 1x 4     | 4.7 / 58.8  | 0.0          | 36         |
11:30:07.612982 {0x00002d8c} [info] python : _table.py:129 : | AD Starbase Mk. 1         | P_432<Fiorina I>             | 1x 4     | 4.7 / 58.8  | 0.0          | 48         |
11:30:07.612982 {0x00002d8c} [info] python : _table.py:129 : | AD Starbase Mk. 1         | P_432<Fiorina I>             | 1x 4     | 4.7 / 58.8  | 0.0          | 60         |
11:30:07.612982 {0x00002d8c} [info] python : _table.py:129 : | AD Starbase Mk. 1         | P_432<Fiorina I>             | 1x 4     | 4.8 / 58.8  | 0.0          | 72         |
11:30:07.613981 {0x00002d8c} [info] python : _table.py:129 : | AD Starbase Mk. 1         | P_432<Fiorina I>             | 1x 4     | 4.8 / 58.8  | 0.0          | 84         |
11:30:07.613981 {0x00002d8c} [info] python : _table.py:129 : | AD Starbase Mk. 1         | P_432<Fiorina I>             | 1x 4     | 4.8 / 58.8  | 0.0          | 96         |
11:30:07.613981 {0x00002d8c} [info] python : _table.py:129 : | AD Starbase Mk. 1         | P_432<Fiorina I>             | 1x 4     | 4.9 / 58.8  | 0.0          | 108        |
11:30:07.614982 {0x00002d8c} [info] python : _table.py:129 : | AD Starbase Mk. 1         | P_432<Fiorina I>             | 1x 4     | 4.9 / 58.8  | 0.0          | 120        |
...
It seems to add 4 new star bases to the top of the queue every turn, never finishing any of them...

Gray Area
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Posts: 89
Joined: Sat Sep 24, 2011 4:39 pm

Re: Hostile Planet Takeover

#83 Post by Gray Area »

Grummel7 wrote: Sun Jul 31, 2022 6:52 pm
Gray Area wrote: Sun Jul 31, 2022 3:45 pm Try this new AI log. I ran the game for about ten (10) more turns before copying it.
The AI seems almost wiped out. It doesn't see the Eros systems anymore and so does not calculate values for it.

It is doing some monkey business, though. I'd be interested in a save file to analyse what it is doing here:

Code: Select all

11:30:07.610981 {0x00002d8c} [info] python : _table.py:129 : Production Queue Turn 227 before ProductionAI calls
11:30:07.610981 {0x00002d8c} [info] python : _table.py:129 : =================================================================================================================
11:30:07.611983 {0x00002d8c} [info] python : _table.py:129 : | Object                    | Location                     | Quantity | Progress    | Allocated PP | Turns left |
11:30:07.611983 {0x00002d8c} [info] python : _table.py:129 : =================================================================================================================
11:30:07.611983 {0x00002d8c} [info] python : _table.py:129 : | AD Starbase Mk. 1         | P_432<Fiorina I>             | 1x 4     | 8.6 / 58.8  | 18.0         | 12         |
11:30:07.611983 {0x00002d8c} [info] python : _table.py:129 : | AD Starbase Mk. 1         | P_432<Fiorina I>             | 1x 4     | 4.6 / 58.8  | 0.0          | 24         |
11:30:07.611983 {0x00002d8c} [info] python : _table.py:129 : | AD Starbase Mk. 1         | P_432<Fiorina I>             | 1x 4     | 4.7 / 58.8  | 0.0          | 36         |
11:30:07.612982 {0x00002d8c} [info] python : _table.py:129 : | AD Starbase Mk. 1         | P_432<Fiorina I>             | 1x 4     | 4.7 / 58.8  | 0.0          | 48         |
11:30:07.612982 {0x00002d8c} [info] python : _table.py:129 : | AD Starbase Mk. 1         | P_432<Fiorina I>             | 1x 4     | 4.7 / 58.8  | 0.0          | 60         |
11:30:07.612982 {0x00002d8c} [info] python : _table.py:129 : | AD Starbase Mk. 1         | P_432<Fiorina I>             | 1x 4     | 4.8 / 58.8  | 0.0          | 72         |
11:30:07.613981 {0x00002d8c} [info] python : _table.py:129 : | AD Starbase Mk. 1         | P_432<Fiorina I>             | 1x 4     | 4.8 / 58.8  | 0.0          | 84         |
11:30:07.613981 {0x00002d8c} [info] python : _table.py:129 : | AD Starbase Mk. 1         | P_432<Fiorina I>             | 1x 4     | 4.8 / 58.8  | 0.0          | 96         |
11:30:07.613981 {0x00002d8c} [info] python : _table.py:129 : | AD Starbase Mk. 1         | P_432<Fiorina I>             | 1x 4     | 4.9 / 58.8  | 0.0          | 108        |
11:30:07.614982 {0x00002d8c} [info] python : _table.py:129 : | AD Starbase Mk. 1         | P_432<Fiorina I>             | 1x 4     | 4.9 / 58.8  | 0.0          | 120        |
...
It seems to add 4 new star bases to the top of the queue every turn, never finishing any of them...
Grummel7,

Try this one, and see if it helps.

Gray Area
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Before Invasion II.7z
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wobbly
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Re: Hostile Planet Takeover

#84 Post by wobbly »

Gray Area wrote: Sun Jul 31, 2022 6:22 pm To date, I've only played as a human. I generally use Outpost Ships to take possession of planets, etc. And, after simply taking possession of a planet, from my limited experience, I've not seen any main population, or any Troops appear on that planet.
Outposts have 0 troops at base tech. They have troops once you have the troop techs, but no population.

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Grummel7
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Re: Hostile Planet Takeover

#85 Post by Grummel7 »

Gray Area wrote: Sun Jul 31, 2022 7:04 pm Try this one, and see if it helps.
Thanks, I can reproduce the issue now. Will have a closer look this evening.

Btw, the population of Eros β II survived, because Ascendancy has Xenological Genetics and it died because your Empire did not.

Gray Area
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Re: Hostile Planet Takeover

#86 Post by Gray Area »

wobbly wrote: Mon Aug 01, 2022 4:11 am
Gray Area wrote: Sun Jul 31, 2022 6:22 pm To date, I've only played as a human. I generally use Outpost Ships to take possession of planets, etc. And, after simply taking possession of a planet, from my limited experience, I've not seen any main population, or any Troops appear on that planet.
Outposts have 0 troops at base tech. They have troops once you have the troop techs, but no population.
wobbly,

Thank you for enlightening me. I, obviously, need a lot more experience playing this game.

Gray Area

Gray Area
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Re: Hostile Planet Takeover

#87 Post by Gray Area »

Grummel7 wrote: Mon Aug 01, 2022 6:54 am
Gray Area wrote: Sun Jul 31, 2022 7:04 pm Try this one, and see if it helps.
Thanks, I can reproduce the issue now. Will have a closer look this evening.

Btw, the population of Eros β II survived, because Ascendancy has Xenological Genetics and it died because your Empire did not.
Grummel7,

So, is there an actual issue, other than me not having researched Xenological Genetics?

Gray Area

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Oberlus
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Re: Hostile Planet Takeover

#88 Post by Oberlus »

Gray Area wrote: Mon Aug 01, 2022 2:39 pm So, is there an actual issue, other than me not having researched Xenological Genetics?
No other issue. Working as intended: if you don't have the techs for species to live in rough environments, they can't live there.

Gray Area
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Re: Hostile Planet Takeover

#89 Post by Gray Area »

Oberlus wrote: Mon Aug 01, 2022 3:35 pm
Gray Area wrote: Mon Aug 01, 2022 2:39 pm So, is there an actual issue, other than me not having researched Xenological Genetics?
No other issue. Working as intended: if you don't have the techs for species to live in rough environments, they can't live there.
Oberlus,

Of course.

Gray Area

Gray Area
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Re: Hostile Planet Takeover

#90 Post by Gray Area »

Daybreak, Oberlus, and wobbly,

I've come back to address my Item # 3, from my old Post # 51. The subject item is reposted below:

3. Some planets with foreign species can be "temporarily" taken, but not held. After a few turns, the foreign species again takes over the planet, and locks me out of the Focus control. After this happened for the third time on one planet, I decided to bomb the species out of existence. However, to my complete surprise, I could not bomb them with Bio-Terminators. In this case, with more than ample Bombers and Troop Ships in the system, the "choice box for bombing," never appeared, even though the "choice box for invading" did.

After recreating the game, I again found that my Bio-Terminator Bombers did not work. I then created Death Spores Bombers, and they didn't work either.

So, I went back to the Pedia. The Pedia does not specifically say that Bio-Terminators, and Death Spores will not work on this species, but it does identify them as having a Phototrophic Metabolism.

Next, I went back to the Pedia and looked up Phototrophic Metabolism. The Pedia explains the term, but does not give any information about what weapons are effective against this type of species.

My next move was to go to the Research area to search for weapons that might be useful against species with a Phototrophic Metabolism. I found Dark Ray, and Void Shadow, and then added them both to my Research Queue.

I then created Void Shadow Bombers, and they worked as advertised. I didn't create any Dark Ray Bombers, but I do not doubt that they would have worked almost as well.

My last task was to go back into the game to before I invaded the Chato. This time, I invaded them, but left them keep their preferred Research Focus, as the Pedia says they like Research, with ++ Great Research 200%. The result of this was, that after many turns, the Chato continued to remain well behaved.

I, obviously, need a lot more experience playing this game. So, I'm going to get some more experience, while maintaining Forum Silence for, at least, the rest of the month.

Once again, thank you for all of the help that all of you have given me.

Gray Area

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