Twenty-first game on the multiplayer slow game server

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wobbly
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Re: Twenty-first game on the multiplayer slow game server

#166 Post by wobbly »

Daybreak wrote: Mon Sep 19, 2022 10:58 am
wobbly wrote: Sun Sep 18, 2022 9:04 am While I've used pencil ships (spatial flux hull) before, I've never considered them that great. I'm pretty sure I've been underestimating their potential. That combination of fuel and stealth is actually pretty brutal.
I think a little too powerful - I feel the stealth is too high. Having to research Neutron scanner to fully catch such a early ship is too much.
I have Electromagnetic Dampening. It'd be visible to you without that tech. They are also visible when stopped in empty space or red stars, on the turn they stop, when they are set to aggressive...

A lot of what's working is from a massive tech investment from one of the best research races (Chato).

Edit: They are literally worse then symbiotic stealth ships in every way, except fuel.

BlueAward
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Re: Twenty-first game on the multiplayer slow game server

#167 Post by BlueAward »

Ophiuchus wrote: Mon Sep 19, 2022 5:56 am Is there any known cure to ghost designs?
What I wrote in chat - design same kind of ship with a different name and "rename button" enables, when you hit that, the design pops into existence as known design and you may delete it or rename to what you originally wanted. Not sure if that works in every case but this workaround seems working for me

Daybreak
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Re: Twenty-first game on the multiplayer slow game server

#168 Post by Daybreak »

wobbly wrote: Mon Sep 19, 2022 1:06 pm
Daybreak wrote: Mon Sep 19, 2022 10:58 am
wobbly wrote: Sun Sep 18, 2022 9:04 am While I've used pencil ships (spatial flux hull) before, I've never considered them that great. I'm pretty sure I've been underestimating their potential. That combination of fuel and stealth is actually pretty brutal.
I think a little too powerful - I feel the stealth is too high. Having to research Neutron scanner to fully catch such a early ship is too much.
I have Electromagnetic Dampening. It'd be visible to you without that tech. They are also visible when stopped in empty space or red stars, on the turn they stop, when they are set to aggressive...

A lot of what's working is from a massive tech investment from one of the best research races (Chato).

Edit: They are literally worse then symbiotic stealth ships in every way, except fuel.
I dont agree, because it does not need an Electronic Dampening ship part. If it is able to use Electonic Dampening, then thats like an extra internal slot, even if that is only stealth parts

great Fuel and extra internal slot (stealth only) - quite a powerful ship at the early stages of the game, and not expensive in terms of research compared to neutron scanner and say mines 3.

Pedia -
Researching each of Electromagnetic Dampening, Radiation Absorbing, Dimensional Cloaking, and Planetary Phasing Cloak will increase base stealth by 10.0 when in a fleet not set to initiate combat.

and so reserching more will increase its stealth, which lol, you are already doing.

and researchinig scanning compared to that stealth tech is expensive.

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Re: Twenty-first game on the multiplayer slow game server

#169 Post by Ophiuchus »

Daybreak wrote: Mon Sep 19, 2022 8:07 pm I dont agree, because it does not need an Electronic Dampening ship part. If it is able to use Electonic Dampening, then thats like an extra internal slot.
it even upgrades on further stealth part research (but always only a +10 half-step instead of the +20 one gets from the ship parts). that has been the special power of the flux line for years.
Daybreak wrote: Mon Sep 19, 2022 8:07 pm great Fuel and extra internal slot - quite a powerful ship at the early stages of the game, and not expensive in terms of research compared to neutron scanner and say mines 3.
why on earth would you expect those to be affordable counters?

yeah, great fuel make it possible to use outside of own supply. so maybe there is no better hull for disrupting early. anyway i know at least 4 early counters to flux hulls
Daybreak wrote: Mon Sep 19, 2022 8:07 pm and reserching more will increase its stealth, and researchinig scanning compared to the stealth tech is expensive.
A single step of detection increases detection power by +20 (while the flux tech upgrade is at +10 per step). And for researchin stealth tech you first need to research the appropiate detection tech. In which world can that be cheaper?

I suggest you try using flux hulls yourself first against humans who know what they are doing before you think these are overpowered

from my point of view you got bitten by something you did not expect and now you are sour. I am surprised that your team members more experienced with stealth tactics did not properly lend you their experience. we were using flux bubble hulls two longterm games ago heavily - hm not sure if your team members were in the middle of it.

balance wise what changed in the last few years are the available RP, so early hulls can be used a bit longer. also is powerful is the timing of stealth upgrade. and the movement pattern of the flux hulls changed.
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Daybreak
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Re: Twenty-first game on the multiplayer slow game server

#170 Post by Daybreak »

Ophiuchus wrote: Mon Sep 19, 2022 9:05 pm from my point of view you got bitten by something you did not expect and now you are sour. I am surprised that your team members more experienced with stealth tactics did not properly lend you their experience. we were using flux bubble hulls two longterm games ago heavily - hm not sure if your team members were in the middle of it.
lol not sour at all - just adamant in my asessment


So Wobbly says this -
wobbly wrote: Sun Sep 18, 2022 9:04 am While I've used pencil ships (spatial flux hull) before, I've never considered them that great. I'm pretty sure I've been underestimating their potential. That combination of fuel and stealth is actually pretty brutal.
I agreed - I say that again I agreed,

and feel it is too powerful and advised why I think that, and you come along and accuse me of being sour. Again I believe it is the way I must write it.

I dont understand why there are so many people here that are just so quick to attack people that post an opinion.

You say there are 4 other ways to counter this, other than the two very expensive otpions. I don't mind being wrong in my assessment, but I definitely cant see 4 of them.

Oberlus and o01eg, as being the most experienced in our team -
spatial flux hull at 25 stealth, plus 10 for Electronic dampening (35) is countered by
Active radar, and continuous scanning at 40

Then spatial flux hull at 25 stealth, plus 10 for Electronic dampening and 10 for Raditaion Absorbing (45) - which I beleive Wobbly is already researching

Do you know other counters, other than Neutron scanning, and (just found) Border Checkpoints (For which the cost can be huge to early empires with the loss of 1 supply)?

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Oberlus
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Re: Twenty-first game on the multiplayer slow game server

#171 Post by Oberlus »

Let's wait and see.

It is easy for you, Daybreak, to feel that something is too powerful. We have a history now :lol:

RIS are not as OP as you still say, so I can't just trust your opinion on this matter either.
I still have to see how powerful are those invisible pencils.

Daybreak
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Re: Twenty-first game on the multiplayer slow game server

#172 Post by Daybreak »

Oberlus wrote: Tue Sep 20, 2022 6:08 am Let's wait and see.

It is easy for you, Daybreak, to feel that something is too powerful. We have a history now :lol:

RIS are not as OP as you still say, so I can't just trust your opinion on this matter either.
I still have to see how powerful are those invisible pencils.
RIS are still OP - waiting for the day I get a robotic species and early access to Kobunture to prove you wrong. Keep in mind you did good things with your stack with from memory 104 shield strength.

Plus you trust Wobbly
wobbly wrote: Sun Sep 18, 2022 9:04 am While I've used pencil ships (spatial flux hull) before, I've never considered them that great. I'm pretty sure I've been underestimating their potential. That combination of fuel and stealth is actually pretty brutal.

Anyway - do you know what these counters are that Ophiuchus is talking about?

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LienRag
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Re: Twenty-first game on the multiplayer slow game server

#173 Post by LienRag »

Daybreak wrote: Mon Sep 19, 2022 10:42 pm I dont understand why there are so many people here that are just so quick to attack people that post an opinion.
It's not "posting an opinion", it's refusing to consider that you may be wrong.

I don't know if RIS or Flux are OP but not understanding that having a thing that forces you to change your playstyle doesn't mean that this thing is OP renders your argumentation moot on these topics.

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LienRag
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Re: Twenty-first game on the multiplayer slow game server

#174 Post by LienRag »

Daybreak wrote: Tue Sep 20, 2022 6:36 am Anyway - do you know what these counters are that Ophiuchus is talking about?
I'm sure that surrendering to your enemy would be a creative counter (and probably an efficient one).

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Re: Twenty-first game on the multiplayer slow game server

#175 Post by Oberlus »

Daybreak wrote: Mon Sep 19, 2022 10:42 pm people here that are just so quick to attack people that post an opinion
I missed this. I don't think anyone here is attacking anyone. Just posting opinions on others' opinions...

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Re: Twenty-first game on the multiplayer slow game server

#176 Post by Ophiuchus »

Daybreak wrote: Mon Sep 19, 2022 10:42 pm lol not sour at all - just adamant in my asessment
cant judge your feelings by simple text, so sour is probably wrong. i tend to ascribe emotional causes when somebody chooses to ignore feedback

i meant you tend to overestimate the effects of stuff by which you were surprised.
or maybe you tend to express opinions way stronger than others - being very convinced when you obviously do not know the options.

also continuous scanning gives up to +20 detection, not +10.
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wobbly
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Re: Twenty-first game on the multiplayer slow game server

#177 Post by wobbly »

Priority order for Defensive Militia Training is out. It should be modified by species trait and is not. If someone has a chance to check in SP, maybe check Planetary Guard Brigades as well.

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Re: Twenty-first game on the multiplayer slow game server

#178 Post by Ophiuchus »

oO1eg, can you please delegate my empire to lienrag?
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Re: Twenty-first game on the multiplayer slow game server

#179 Post by o01eg »

Ophiuchus wrote: Thu Sep 22, 2022 3:08 pm oO1eg, can you please delegate my empire to lienrag?
Yes, I've just done it.
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LienRag
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Re: Twenty-first game on the multiplayer slow game server

#180 Post by LienRag »

For information, tomorrow (friday) i won't be able to play until late evening.

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