0.4.8 KI Spice not stacking and sometimes unable to build an outpost

Problems and solutions for installing or running FreeOrion, including discussion of bugs if needed before posting a bug report on GitHub. For problems building from source, post in Compile.

Moderator: Oberlus

Post Reply
Message
Author
Daybreak
Vacuum Dragon
Posts: 641
Joined: Mon Aug 13, 2018 10:14 pm

0.4.8 KI Spice not stacking and sometimes unable to build an outpost

#1 Post by Daybreak »

1) see images attached. System has two small planets both with Ki Spice. However only one is affecting my growth on other planets. (Nb: dont get confused by the other growth which is a different system) In the Pedia it does not mention that Growth specials do not stack in same system.

2) In 2 games I have found I went to colonise a plantet or more in same system, and although it says "Cancel Colonisation" after pressing on buttons, after the turn,they were not colonised and asked me to colonise again. I also tried a colony ship, but did not help. There did not seem to be any reason and planets were different.

It is a rare though.
Attachments
only 1.png
only 1.png (31.38 KiB) Viewed 8747 times
Ki Spice.png
Ki Spice.png (58.7 KiB) Viewed 8747 times

Ophiuchus
Programmer
Posts: 3433
Joined: Tue Sep 30, 2014 10:01 am
Location: Wall IV

Re: 0.4.8 KI Spice not stacking and sometimes unable to build an outpost

#2 Post by Ophiuchus »

Identical growth specials never stack. Please suggest a better pedia entry.

The colonization issue could be due to stealth or combat I suppose. Got Screenshots?
Any code or patches in anything posted here is released under the CC and GPL licences in use for the FO project.

Look, ma... four combat bouts!

Daybreak
Vacuum Dragon
Posts: 641
Joined: Mon Aug 13, 2018 10:14 pm

Re: 0.4.8 KI Spice not stacking and sometimes unable to build an outpost

#3 Post by Daybreak »

Ophiuchus wrote: Tue Nov 06, 2018 8:58 pm Identical growth specials never stack. Please suggest a better pedia entry.
Not sure where I suggest a better pedia entry, but willing to do so if someone points me in right direction.
Ophiuchus wrote: Tue Nov 06, 2018 8:58 pm The colonization issue could be due to stealth or combat I suppose. Got Screenshots?
I will check if I have an old game for images, but there was no stealth or combat issues.

User avatar
Dilvish
AI Lead and Programmer Emeritus
Posts: 4768
Joined: Sat Sep 22, 2012 6:25 pm

Re: 0.4.8 KI Spice not stacking and sometimes unable to build an outpost

#4 Post by Dilvish »

Daybreak wrote: Wed Nov 07, 2018 1:17 pmNot sure where I suggest a better pedia entry, but willing to do so if someone points me in right direction.
The simplest thing for you would be to make the suggestion right here, and that's how I'd recommend a starting contributor begin-- get consensus on the forums. Then if you are up to it you could move on to opening an Issue (or better yet, once you have consensus, a PR) on our github repo.
I will check if I have an old game for images, but there was no stealth or combat issues.
If you ever have that happen again, please save a copy of the savegame immedately prior to that point, and post either a link to it here or upload the game to a github Issue so that we could better examine the situation and if there really were a problem we could use that savegame to test a fix.

We do have an open github Issue to better flag to players when something is blocking their colonization attempt, the current handling causes a fair bit of new player confusion (but it has been quite a long time since we have seen actually buggy behavior with this aspect of gameplay).

One more thing that comes to mind as a possibility is that a stealthed colony ship from an enemy, also trying to colonize that same planet on the same turn, would block you (both competing attempts fail, or at least used to the last time I remember looking into such details).

All such blocking factors should be (but are not currently) listed on the Colonization ship parts Pedia Entry (and perhaps this area also merits an article under "Game Concepts"). I invite you to open an Issue for that on our github repo (linked above).
If I provided any code, scripts or other content here, it's released under GPL 2.0 and CC-BY-SA 3.0

Daybreak
Vacuum Dragon
Posts: 641
Joined: Mon Aug 13, 2018 10:14 pm

Re: 0.4.8 KI Spice not stacking and sometimes unable to build an outpost

#5 Post by Daybreak »

Dilvish wrote: Wed Nov 07, 2018 2:22 pm
Daybreak wrote: Wed Nov 07, 2018 1:17 pmNot sure where I suggest a better pedia entry, but willing to do so if someone points me in right direction.
The simplest thing for you would be to make the suggestion right here, and that's how I'd recommend a starting contributor begin-- get consensus on the forums. Then if you are up to it you could move on to opening an Issue (or better yet, once you have consensus, a PR) on our github repo.
After testing I now realise that growth specials of the same type do not stack at all in the same supply chain.

So for organic, Caretaker's Fruit | Ki Spice | Probiotic Soup there can only ever be 3 growth specials. In other words if I had two planets with Ki Spice inthe same supply chain, set to growth focus, only 1 of them would affect growth.

Pedia does not tell you that -
Heading: "Growth Focus"
"Growth Planetary Focus"
"The Growth Focus represents exporting rare materials and substances that can increase population of planets. Is only available in certain situations: on some homeworlds, and on planets with growth specials that can be exported.
A planet focused on Growth increases the max Population only of other planets connected to it by Supply lines.
A Homeworld focused on Growth only helps other planets of the same species.
Growth Special planets focused on growth only help a single classification of species. Some specials function for organic species only, some for lithic species only, and some for robotic species only."

Change to

"The Growth Focus represents exporting rare materials and substances that can increase population of planets. The exporting of rare materials and substances of the same type of growth does not stack in the same supply chain. Is only available in certain situations: on some homeworlds, and on planets with growth specials that can be exported.
A planet focused on Growth increases the max Population only of other planets connected to it by Supply lines.
A Homeworld focused on Growth only helps other planets of the same species.
Growth Special planets focused on growth only help a single classification of species. Some specials function for organic species only, some for lithic species only, and some for robotic species only."

Added this - The exporting of rare materials and substances of the same type of growth does not stack in the same supply chain.

I have quite a few so will wait until I post more.

defaultuser
Juggernaut
Posts: 854
Joined: Wed Aug 26, 2015 6:15 pm

Re: 0.4.8 KI Spice not stacking and sometimes unable to build an outpost

#6 Post by defaultuser »

Daybreak wrote: Sun Nov 11, 2018 9:16 pm After testing I now realise that growth specials of the same type do not stack at all in the same supply chain.
Right. Given the prevalence of some, you'd have ridiculous growth numbers sometimes.

Ophiuchus
Programmer
Posts: 3433
Joined: Tue Sep 30, 2014 10:01 am
Location: Wall IV

Re: 0.4.8 KI Spice not stacking and sometimes unable to build an outpost

#7 Post by Ophiuchus »

Daybreak wrote: Sun Nov 11, 2018 9:16 pm Heading: "Growth Focus"
"Growth Planetary Focus"
"The Growth Focus represents exporting rare materials and substances that can increase population of planets. Is only available in certain situations: on some homeworlds, and on planets with growth specials that can be exported.
A planet focused on Growth increases the max Population only of other planets connected to it by Supply lines.
A Homeworld focused on Growth only helps other planets of the same species.
Growth Special planets focused on growth only help a single classification of species. Some specials function for organic species only, some for lithic species only, and some for robotic species only."

Change to

"The Growth Focus represents exporting rare materials and substances that can increase population of planets. The exporting of rare materials and substances of the same type of growth does not stack in the same supply chain. Is only available in certain situations: on some homeworlds, and on planets with growth specials that can be exported.
A planet focused on Growth increases the max Population only of other planets connected to it by Supply lines.
A Homeworld focused on Growth only helps other planets of the same species.
Growth Special planets focused on growth only help a single classification of species. Some specials function for organic species only, some for lithic species only, and some for robotic species only."

Added this - The exporting of rare materials and substances of the same type of growth does not stack in the same supply chain.
How about change to

"The Growth Focus represents exporting rare materials and substances that can increase population of planets. Is only available in certain situations: on some homeworlds, and on planets with growth specials that can be exported.
A planet focused on Growth increases the max Population only of other planets connected to it by Supply lines.
If the planet focused on Growth is a Homeworld it helps connected other planets of the same species.
Growth Special effects are restricted to a single metabolism of species, i.e. there are different Growth Specials for organics, lithics, or robotic species. If the planet focused on Growth has a Growth Special it helps connected planets only if the planet's species is of the right metabolism. Note that effects for different sources of Growth do stack, but having the same source multiple times (e.g. setting two Etty Homeworlds in the same supply group to Growth Focus) is a waste as it provides the bonus only once."
Any code or patches in anything posted here is released under the CC and GPL licences in use for the FO project.

Look, ma... four combat bouts!

User avatar
Dilvish
AI Lead and Programmer Emeritus
Posts: 4768
Joined: Sat Sep 22, 2012 6:25 pm

Re: 0.4.8 KI Spice not stacking and sometimes unable to build an outpost

#8 Post by Dilvish »

I'll propose a version I think slightly more clear and concise:

The Growth Focus represents exporting rare materials and substances that can increase the max Population of planets. Is only available in certain situations: on some homeworlds, and on planets with growth specials that can be exported.

A planet focused on Growth extends those benefits to other planets connected to it by [[metertype METER_SUPPLY]] lines, provided that the species of those other planets are of the right type, i.e., a Homeworld focused on Growth only helps other planets of the same species, and applicability of Growth Specials is determined by [[encyclopedia METABOLISM_TITLE]]. The benefits from different source types of applicable Growth Focus will stack with each other, but not from multiple sources of the identical specific source type.

Some specials function for organic species only, some for lithic species only, and some for robotic species only; no other [[encyclopedia METABOLISM_TITLE]] currently has applicable Growth Specials.

[[encyclopedia ORGANIC_SPECIES_TITLE]] specials:
[[special FRUIT_SPECIAL]] | [[special SPICE_SPECIAL]] | [[special PROBIOTIC_SPECIAL]]

[[encyclopedia ROBOTIC_SPECIES_TITLE]] specials:
[[special MONOPOLE_SPECIAL]] | [[special SUPERCONDUCTOR_SPECIAL]] | [[special POSITRONIUM_SPECIAL]]

[[encyclopedia LITHIC_SPECIES_TITLE]] specials:
[[special MINERALS_SPECIAL]] | [[special ELERIUM_SPECIAL]] | [[special CRYSTALS_SPECIAL]]
If I provided any code, scripts or other content here, it's released under GPL 2.0 and CC-BY-SA 3.0

User avatar
em3
Vacuum Dragon
Posts: 630
Joined: Sun Sep 25, 2011 2:51 pm

Re: 0.4.8 KI Spice not stacking and sometimes unable to build an outpost

#9 Post by em3 »

Divlish, unless you want to update this entry each time a special is added, I'd suggest instead:

Code: Select all

Examples:
[[encyclopedia ORGANIC_SPECIES_TITLE]]: [[special FRUIT_SPECIAL]]
[[encyclopedia ROBOTIC_SPECIES_TITLE]]: [[special MONOPOLE_SPECIAL]]
[[encyclopedia LITHIC_SPECIES_TITLE]]: [[special MINERALS_SPECIAL]]
https://github.com/mmoderau
[...] for Man has earned his right to hold this planet against all comers, by virtue of occasionally producing someone totally batshit insane. - Randall Munroe, title text to xkcd #556

User avatar
Dilvish
AI Lead and Programmer Emeritus
Posts: 4768
Joined: Sat Sep 22, 2012 6:25 pm

Re: 0.4.8 KI Spice not stacking and sometimes unable to build an outpost

#10 Post by Dilvish »

em3 wrote: Fri Nov 16, 2018 10:37 am Divlish, unless you want to update this entry each time a special is added, I'd suggest instead:
Although that would certainly be reasonable, and easy to maintain, I think it's very helpful for beginners, and still a bit helpful for the moderately experienced, that someplace gives the full list for each metabolism that has such a list. It appears to me this is the only place we have that. And it's not all that likely that we'd be expanding these particular lists, I think.
If I provided any code, scripts or other content here, it's released under GPL 2.0 and CC-BY-SA 3.0

Daybreak
Vacuum Dragon
Posts: 641
Joined: Mon Aug 13, 2018 10:14 pm

Re: 0.4.8 KI Spice not stacking and sometimes unable to build an outpost

#11 Post by Daybreak »

Could we make it more obvious that - The gowth special will only be applied if the planet with the growth special is inhabitated by a species that will benefit from the growth special.

so we have this

A planet when inhabitated by a species that will benefit from the growth special and focused on Growth will extend those benefits to other planets connected to it by [[metertype METER_SUPPLY]] lines, provided that the species of those other planets are of the right type, i.e., a Homeworld focused on Growth only helps other planets of the same species, and applicability of Growth Specials is determined by [[encyclopedia METABOLISM_TITLE]]. The benefits from different source types of applicable Growth Focus will stack with each other, but not from multiple sources of the identical specific source type.

and include Metabolism in the text so we see it clearly

A planet when inhabitated by a species that will benefit from the growth special and focused on Growth will extend those benefits to other planets connected to it by [[metertype METER_SUPPLY]] lines, provided that the metabolism of the species of those other planets are of the right type, i.e., a Homeworld focused on Growth only helps other planets of the same [[encyclopedia METABOLISM_TITLE]]. The benefits from different source types of applicable Growth Focus will stack with each other, but not from multiple sources of the identical specific source type.

User avatar
Dilvish
AI Lead and Programmer Emeritus
Posts: 4768
Joined: Sat Sep 22, 2012 6:25 pm

Re: 0.4.8 KI Spice not stacking and sometimes unable to build an outpost

#12 Post by Dilvish »

I've made a slight further adjustment to my proposal above, and pushed that to the repo now.
If I provided any code, scripts or other content here, it's released under GPL 2.0 and CC-BY-SA 3.0

Daybreak
Vacuum Dragon
Posts: 641
Joined: Mon Aug 13, 2018 10:14 pm

Re: 0.4.8 KI Spice not stacking and sometimes unable to build an outpost

#13 Post by Daybreak »

I thought that the only way a growth special would be applied to the supply chain, is if the the species occupying the planet with growth chosen could benefit from the growth special.

In this image (AI player) Lithic is applying growth to a planet with a positronium ash special and it is affecting a nearby exobot inhabitated asteroids.

In an older game I don't have images for I applied a growth special where the species Would not benefit, expecting it to be applied to the right species with the right metabolism in my supply chain. That did not happen until I evacuated the incorrect species with the wrong metabolism, and colonised with a species with the right metabolism. However that was not positronium ash.

So I am confused now, which is right.

a) Any species, even one with the wrong metabolism, can apply the growth and it will be applied thoughout connected supply chain

b) Only a species, with the wrong metabolism that is affected by the growht special, can apply the growth and it will be applied thoughout connected supply chain


Lol unless I ma missing something else.

Thanks
Attachments
Growth.jpg
Growth.jpg (162.81 KiB) Viewed 8527 times

Daybreak
Vacuum Dragon
Posts: 641
Joined: Mon Aug 13, 2018 10:14 pm

Re: 0.4.8 KI Spice not stacking and sometimes unable to build an outpost

#14 Post by Daybreak »

hmmm I am wrong and (a) applies.

Can't go back to that earlier game and check. Maybe a version change - does not matter, at least another thing learned !!

Post Reply